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Thread: South celebrates Civil War, largely without slaves

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    Re: South celebrates Civil War, largely without slaves

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Yes it does, because it is in fact the same act. Here you have some people celebrating secession and you're jumping up and down screaming racism. They're honoring the history of the Civil War meaning they are celebrating the use of slavery in the South prior to. They are exalting the practice! This is in essence your argument. It's the same for those military history nerds who like to dress up and reenact wars. You can say the same damned things. But it seems that you won't. They're celebrating the war, they're upholding whatever values were expressed by the nation whose military uniform the reenactor is currently wearing. Oh this and that, blah blah blah.
    Wow! talk about a drama queen, lol. I am saying it has racist undertones, that's it. I am not jumping up and down or comparing it to reenactments. That is just silly.

    So no, that is not my argument.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    You see in the end, it's a very stupid argument. You won't apply it to one side even though it fits pretty much with the case in which you are willing to apply it in. And a man thinks this is because you look favorably perhaps on one hobby such as historical war reenactment, but poorly on a group of people who wanted to throw a secession party. So given the personal bias, you apply your flawed logic in one case, but not the other.
    Wait, one celebrates the solder or a battle etc. The other celebrates a secession based on an immoral practices and a war they lost.

    Yea I see your point.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    And a very poor case it is.
    In your rather mixed up opinion.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Not jumping to conclusions? Yeah, I suppose that is a typical libertarian view. You want to pretend there's an undertone; that's fine. People who look to make the slightest thing into political fodder will often pretend things exist which don't.
    In this case it does. End of story.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
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    Re: South celebrates Civil War, largely without slaves

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    NO doubt that slavery was a main reason for the rebels doing what they did but did the average Union soldier channel John Brown?
    God I hope not.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
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    Re: South celebrates Civil War, largely without slaves

    Quote Originally Posted by Grimjack19 View Post
    No, its actually just one country.

    I have never understood the concept Southern pride, which I grew up around. I don't see anything the South, as a seperate region, has done or stood for that warrants respect and plenty that we should be ashamed of.
    No America is actually many countries, some of which are hostile to each other.

    You have no more right to judge Southern Whites celebrating their identity and heritage than Southern Whites have judging anyone else. Judge not lest ye be judged. If Southern Whites can't celebrate their identity and heritage then no one else has the right either. What's good for the goose is good for the gander. Any other position is philosophically inconsistent.

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    Re: South celebrates Civil War, largely without slaves

    Any other thing I really dislike is the confederate flag being flown with no opposition in many places in the South. I may be "prejudice" against it because I am originally from up north, but when I see that flag flying on poles or on peoples cars it offends me and makes me mad. I've gotten into arguments over it, to which those who express "Dixie pride" claim it's "heritage, not hate." The fact is that the confederate flag stood for the confederacy, which stood for enslavement, secession from the Union, and the killing of American soldiers in the bloodiest war in American history. Many of these people also claim to love America and be patriotic, yet they wave a flag that stood for breaking away from America. I find it to be equal to someone of German dissent (like me, well partially German) waving a nazi flag or banner in order to show support for Germany. The nazi flag stood for racism, war, and the death of soldiers (among these being American). Yet no one would find it acceptable (nor should they) if I were to innocently wave my nazi banner in the name of German pride and simply cast away the racist bloodbath that happened under nazi rule. Would this also be "heritage and not hate"? I do not think the confederacy should be revered or celebrated for any reason. It should be treated just like nazism: a racist nation that is responsible for the deaths of many and an enemy combatant against the United States of America.
    Last edited by digsbe; 12-01-10 at 12:21 AM.
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    Re: South celebrates Civil War, largely without slaves

    Quote Originally Posted by Albert Di Salvo View Post
    No America is actually many countries, some of which are hostile to each other.

    You have no more right to judge Southern Whites celebrating their identity and heritage than Southern Whites have judging anyone else. Judge not lest ye be judged. If Southern Whites can't celebrate their identity and heritage then no one else has the right either. What's good for the goose is good for the gander. Any other position is philosophically inconsistent.
    The problem is that it's not a celebrating of Southern identity and heritage. It's a celebration that ignores the basic facts of Southern identity and heritage.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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    Re: South celebrates Civil War, largely without slaves

    Quote Originally Posted by Albert Di Salvo View Post
    No America is actually many countries, some of which are hostile to each other.

    You have no more right to judge Southern Whites celebrating their identity and heritage than Southern Whites have judging anyone else. Judge not lest ye be judged. If Southern Whites can't celebrate their identity and heritage then no one else has the right either. What's good for the goose is good for the gander. Any other position is philosophically inconsistent.
    They are not celebrating culture or race. It is an excuse to celebrate a racist ideal and thumb their noses at people, nothing more. Not all of the people, but far to many.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

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    Re: South celebrates Civil War, largely without slaves

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    Any other thing I really dislike is the confederate flag being flown with no opposition in many places in the South. I may be "prejudice" against it because I am originally from up north, but when I see that flag flying on poles or on peoples cars it offends me and makes me mad. I've gotten into arguments over it, to which those who express "Dixie pride" claim it's "heritage, not hate." The fact is that the confederate flag stood for the confederacy, which stood for enslavement, secession from the Union, and the killing of American soldiers in the bloodiest war in American history. Many of these people also claim to love America and be patriotic, yet they wave a flag that stood for breaking away from America. I find it to be equal to someone of German dissent (like me, well partially German) waving a nazi flag or banner in order to show support for Germany. The nazi flag stood for racism, war, and the death of soldiers (among these being American). Yet no one would find it acceptable (nor should they) if I were to innocently wave my nazi banner in the name of German pride and simply cast away the racist bloodbath that happened under nazi rule would this also be "heritage and not hate"? I do not think the confederacy should be revered or celebrated for any reason. It should be treated just like nazism: a racist nation that is responsible for the deaths of many and an enemy combatant against the United States of America.
    I don't agree with you on the rebel flag.

    It makes it much easier to recognize a dumb ass or rebel without a clue.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

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    Re: South celebrates Civil War, largely without slaves

    Dan, you get thanks just for linking to civil-war.net. What a wonderful website I had never visited, going to spend some time checking out the wonderful pictures and articles.
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    Re: South celebrates Civil War, largely without slaves

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    They are not celebrating culture or race. It is an excuse to celebrate a racist ideal and thumb their noses at people, nothing more. Not all of the people, but far to many.
    Don't begrudge Southern Whites of the last shred of their history. To do so provokes alienation and estrangement because every single other group in this country gets to celebrate who they are.

    Besides, the Stars and Stripes are just as much a symbol of discrimination and oppression as are the Stars and Bars. Seriously! There is no more reasaon to respect the Stars and Stripes than there is to despise the Stars and Bars.

    Today parades are held in America where primarily Mexican flags are waved. Where I live Mexican Independence Day is about as big a deal as is American Independence Day. That being the case, it's hard for me to get worked up about the Stars and Bars and other accouterments of a past long gone.

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    Re: South celebrates Civil War, largely without slaves

    Quote Originally Posted by Albert Di Salvo View Post
    Don't begrudge Southern Whites of the last shred of their history. To do so provokes alienation and estrangement because every single other group in this country gets to celebrate who they are.
    German-Americans don't get to celebrate the Holocaust.

    Besides, the Stars and Stripes are just as much a symbol of discrimination and oppression as are the Stars and Bars. Seriously! There is no more reasaon to respect the Stars and Stripes than there is to despise the Stars and Bars.
    I can think of one.

    Today parades are held in America where primarily Mexican flags are waved. Where I live Mexican Independence Day is about as big a deal as is American Independence Day. That being the case, it's hard for me to get worked up about the Stars and Bars and other accouterments of a past long gone.
    Yes, and Mexicans were fighting to create a country that was not being oppressed by distant lords in Spain. Southerners were fighting to prolong their use of slavery. The two are not even remotely comparable.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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