Page 23 of 23 FirstFirst ... 13212223
Results 221 to 229 of 229

Thread: South celebrates Civil War, largely without slaves

  1. #221
    Global Moderator
    The Truth is out there.
    Kal'Stang's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Bonners Ferry ID USA
    Last Seen
    @
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    32,858
    Blog Entries
    1

    Re: South celebrates Civil War, largely without slaves

    Quote Originally Posted by independent_thinker2002 View Post
    Just because they suspend logic to rationalized and justify their exploitation and imprisonment of people. Sorry, I'm can't suspend reality. They were people back then too. Just because it was acceptable back then doesn't make it any less illogical and abhorrent. I know that they thought dark people could be property. It's absurd on it's face. Something that absurd is likely not going to end well. It didn't end well for them.
    Of course it is absurd, illogical, and abhorrent. To our 21st century way of thinking. Put yourself in their shoes and it is not quite absurd, illogical, and abhorrent. Back then anything that wasn't just like them was not human. Anything not human could be and should be exploited to further their goals. We are no different today in those respects. Only difference is that we have more accepted knowledge than they did.
    I have an answer for everything...you may not like the answer or it may not satisfy your curiosity..but it will still be an answer. ~ Kal'Stang

    My mind and my heart are saying I'm in my twenties. My body is pointing at my mind and heart and laughing its ass off. ~ Kal'Stang

  2. #222
    Bus Driver to Hell
    Thorgasm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 06:57 PM
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    68,198

    Re: South celebrates Civil War, largely without slaves

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    Of course it is absurd, illogical, and abhorrent. To our 21st century way of thinking. Put yourself in their shoes and it is not quite absurd, illogical, and abhorrent. Back then anything that wasn't just like them was not human. Anything not human could be and should be exploited to further their goals. We are no different today in those respects. Only difference is that we have more accepted knowledge than they did.
    Knowledge?

    They weren't livestock. If one was injured or ill they didn't call a veterinarian.

    They also had sex with them.
    Quote Originally Posted by faithful_servant View Post
    Being a psychiatric patient does not mean that you are mentally ill.



  3. #223
    Global Moderator
    The Truth is out there.
    Kal'Stang's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Bonners Ferry ID USA
    Last Seen
    @
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    32,858
    Blog Entries
    1

    Re: South celebrates Civil War, largely without slaves

    Quote Originally Posted by independent_thinker2002 View Post
    Knowledge?

    They weren't livestock. If one was injured or ill they didn't call a veterinarian.

    They also had sex with them.
    They often didn't call anyone if one was sick. As for the sex...people now a days have sex with animals. It would be the same equivilant of grossness back then I would imagine.
    I have an answer for everything...you may not like the answer or it may not satisfy your curiosity..but it will still be an answer. ~ Kal'Stang

    My mind and my heart are saying I'm in my twenties. My body is pointing at my mind and heart and laughing its ass off. ~ Kal'Stang

  4. #224
    Sage
    SheWolf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 11:44 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    24,508

    Re: South celebrates Civil War, largely without slaves

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Not sure it's "sending the wrong message". The celebration isn't so much over the Civil War itself; but the actual secession from the union itself. In general, it's not a bad thing. There is plenty of history which cannot be ignored, but at the same time we can't really apply the conditions of the Civil War to the current celebration which attempts to exalt State "rights". Slavery was a large reason as to why we fought the Civil War, but it's a dead institituion now and these people are not celebrating slavery or making some movement to reinstall it. Rather, they are celebrating the fact that 11 States broke off from the Union and essentially making the claim that secession is still valid.
    I don't understand why secession should be celebrated.. I believe in state's rights, but I don't think secession is needed in order to practice state's rights.

  5. #225
    Sage
    SheWolf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 11:44 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    24,508

    Re: South celebrates Civil War, largely without slaves

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Yes it does, because it is in fact the same act. Here you have some people celebrating secession and you're jumping up and down screaming racism. They're honoring the history of the Civil War meaning they are celebrating the use of slavery in the South prior to. They are exalting the practice! This is in essence your argument. It's the same for those military history nerds who like to dress up and reenact wars. You can say the same damned things. But it seems that you won't. They're celebrating the war, they're upholding whatever values were expressed by the nation whose military uniform the reenactor is currently wearing. Oh this and that, blah blah blah.

    You see in the end, it's a very stupid argument. You won't apply it to one side even though it fits pretty much with the case in which you are willing to apply it in. And a man thinks this is because you look favorably perhaps on one hobby such as historical war reenactment, but poorly on a group of people who wanted to throw a secession party. So given the personal bias, you apply your flawed logic in one case, but not the other.



    And a very poor case it is.



    Not jumping to conclusions? Yeah, I suppose that is a typical libertarian view. You want to pretend there's an undertone; that's fine. People who look to make the slightest thing into political fodder will often pretend things exist which don't.
    I haven't read the entire thread but I am struggling to understand why you are so incapable of seeing this from somebody else's POV... Whenever somebody celebrates anything related to the south's role in the Civil War, the issue of slavery is going to come up.

    The argument thus far is..
    You: They're not celebrating slavery, they are celebrating secession
    Them: Slavery was the motive behind secession.

    You: They are not celebrating slavery... They have a right to secede, the north had a right to defend the republic and the south lost. It isn't about slavery.

    It's really just a circular debate..

    People are going to keep brining up slavery, because they don't understand it from your POV either.. but you're the one saying people are stupid for gripping about slavery and not seeing it from your POV.

    I don't have a problem with people celebrating states rights, but anything like this is going to cause people to think about slavery... Can't they celebrate states rights another way? with another issue? something less controversial than this issue?

    And I hate to say it, but I think it should be brought up and mentioned.. I could really see some racist groups being attracted to a celebration like this. I can't envision blacks and whites celebrating this together like everything is hunky dory either.. just ignoring the aspect of slavery, I kind of doubt it given the family histories of both races in the south.

    Martin Luther King JR could very well be alive today if he wasn't assassinated (although it's more likely he would have died in our lifetime).. My gran's friend remembers segregation, so that history is still alive today. It's going to be naturally hard for people to just ignore all that, and quietly respect the south celebrating starting the civil war.
    Last edited by SheWolf; 12-04-10 at 11:37 AM.

  6. #226
    Professor
    Dutch's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Northern Arkansas
    Last Seen
    08-23-17 @ 09:19 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    1,808

    Re: South celebrates Civil War, largely without slaves

    Quote Originally Posted by Albert Di Salvo View Post
    In this plane of existence one tends to get what they pay for. Parents can save their children with money or heroic effort to attain a first rate education.

    In my town we have a charter school that is in the top ten public high schools in the country. That charter school actively recruits Latinos and Mexicans. They don't attend. Why? Bad parents. Yes, not everything is the fault of teachers. I stand corrected.

    Bad Latino and Mexican parents have condemned their children to a life time of inferiority, and they have condemned all other Americans to try to deal with the problems created by their gangbanging children.

    Not all cultures are equal. Chinese culture is superior to White, Black and Latino American cultures. The whites are weak and aimless, the blacks won't stay with the women they impregnate, and Latinos don't value education.
    You are spending too much time with race. Not all successes in this country are white or asian. Not all failures are blacks and latinos. You are also placing too much emphasis on the school. If I had to boil it down to it's essence I'd have to say success in america comes down to a good work ethic and putting value on education as a means to and end. Remember, education isn't a "static" endeavour. It's effort on the part of the teacher and effort on the part of the student. A school is just a building with books. By itself it's worthless.
    He has all the virtues I dislike and none of the vices I admire. ~ Winston Churchill

  7. #227
    Professor
    Dutch's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Northern Arkansas
    Last Seen
    08-23-17 @ 09:19 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    1,808

    Re: South celebrates Civil War, largely without slaves

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    Thomas Sowell has done some very interesting work with this. for example, black children raised in a house with a library card do just as well as white children raised in houses with library cards.
    I've been reading, and agreeing, with thomas sowell for a couple of decades now. I've also agreed in large part with what bill cosby and some of what mr obama have had to say on the subject. Government programs aren't a substitute for an intact family structure, a good work ethic, delayed gratification, and valuing education as a means to achieve success.
    He has all the virtues I dislike and none of the vices I admire. ~ Winston Churchill

  8. #228
    Professor
    Dutch's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Northern Arkansas
    Last Seen
    08-23-17 @ 09:19 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    1,808

    Re: South celebrates Civil War, largely without slaves

    Quote Originally Posted by SheWolf View Post
    I don't understand why secession should be celebrated.. I believe in state's rights, but I don't think secession is needed in order to practice state's rights.
    If you have your doubts about the union, then secession should be celebrated.
    He has all the virtues I dislike and none of the vices I admire. ~ Winston Churchill

  9. #229
    Professor
    Dutch's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Northern Arkansas
    Last Seen
    08-23-17 @ 09:19 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    1,808

    Re: South celebrates Civil War, largely without slaves

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    Of course it is absurd, illogical, and abhorrent. To our 21st century way of thinking. Put yourself in their shoes and it is not quite absurd, illogical, and abhorrent. Back then anything that wasn't just like them was not human. Anything not human could be and should be exploited to further their goals. We are no different today in those respects. Only difference is that we have more accepted knowledge than they did.
    I could make the point we're treating illegals in such a way as to further our own agendas. I don't much care for it. It cheapens our society and it cheapens us to exploit our illegals in the way we are.
    He has all the virtues I dislike and none of the vices I admire. ~ Winston Churchill

Page 23 of 23 FirstFirst ... 13212223

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •