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Thread: South celebrates Civil War, largely without slaves

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    Re: South celebrates Civil War, largely without slaves

    "That depends on the nation in question. Most nations are mono-cultural. Some nations/cultures put a premium on education as a means of success. Some don't. In america we have numerous cultures/sub-cultures. To be fair if you want to compare us to say, germany or japan you would only include those cultures that value education. Think in terms of any of our middle and or upper class americans irrespective of their color. We would compare quite favoribly."

    In other words wealthy white and Asian American kids do really well. Black and Latino kids don't as a general rule.

    My kids went to charter schools along with the kids of university faculty. All white and Asian. Charter schools are fine, but teacher's unions hate them.

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    Re: South celebrates Civil War, largely without slaves

    Quote Originally Posted by Albert Di Salvo View Post
    "Teacher's unions serve as a source of monies for the democratic party."

    What is the relationship between the decline in the standards of American public instruction and the rise of the Teacher' unions?
    None. What do you mean by the decline in american public instruction? We have more children than ever graduating high school and going to college. Some sub-populations do better than others. That has more to do with the socio-economic status/culture/sub-culture than anything else.

    What many don't understand is learning isn't a static exercise. It requires an intense amount of effort on the part of the learner. That is why some sub-populations do better than others..........they have their parents behind them encouraging them to succeed in school.
    He has all the virtues I dislike and none of the vices I admire. ~ Winston Churchill

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    Re: South celebrates Civil War, largely without slaves

    Quote Originally Posted by Albert Di Salvo View Post
    "That depends on the nation in question. Most nations are mono-cultural. Some nations/cultures put a premium on education as a means of success. Some don't. In america we have numerous cultures/sub-cultures. To be fair if you want to compare us to say, germany or japan you would only include those cultures that value education. Think in terms of any of our middle and or upper class americans irrespective of their color. We would compare quite favoribly."

    In other words wealthy white and Asian American kids do really well. Black and Latino kids don't as a general rule.My kids went to charter schools along with the kids of university faculty. All white and Asian. Charter schools are fine, but teacher's unions hate them.
    Race is a factor but not as much as you would imagine. If the parents are black and middle class the odds are their children will succeed in school. Latinos tend to have iq's between whites and blacks but have a lower graduation rate. The reason is their culture tends not to emphasize education as a means to get ahead in the world. The reality is poor whites, blacks, and hispanics have more cultural similarities than not.

    In regards to asians it's also a mixed bag. The japanese and chinese tend to do better than others, because of culture.


    This is the reason I cringe whenever somebody talks about the virtues of multi-culturalism. Many of america's newest immigrants represent a semi-permanent underclass. This isn't because of race, it's because of the culture they happen to be born into.

    However, I've decided to go with the flow. I find I'm not very fond of my liberal brothers and sisters on the west coast, northeast, and parts in between. I was born into a traditional culture. I"ll keep it. I'll also continue to strive to help my own in my own way, by teaching just as hard and long as I can. If change is to come it needs to come from the bottom up. In my own little part of the world I intend to try to affect my fellows in a positive way. The liberal bastions of this nation can go to hell. I'm simply not interested in them.
    He has all the virtues I dislike and none of the vices I admire. ~ Winston Churchill

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    Re: South celebrates Civil War, largely without slaves

    Quote Originally Posted by Albert Di Salvo View Post
    "That's what teachers do too. We qualify as a profession."

    Do you carry Errors and Omissions insurance? Can you be sued for malpractice?
    I'm a lousy speller. I was reading at a college level in high school but my writing has always been problematic. However, when necessary I do fine. I've managed two degrees. Perhaps the profession could get better individuals than myself. However, they'd have to pay for them.
    He has all the virtues I dislike and none of the vices I admire. ~ Winston Churchill

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    Re: South celebrates Civil War, largely without slaves

    Quote Originally Posted by Dutch View Post
    I'm a lousy speller. I was reading at a college level in high school but my writing has always been problematic. However, when necessary I do fine. I've managed two degrees. Perhaps the profession could get better individuals than myself. However, they'd have to pay for them.
    In this plane of existence one tends to get what they pay for. Parents can save their children with money or heroic effort to attain a first rate education.

    In my town we have a charter school that is in the top ten public high schools in the country. That charter school actively recruits Latinos and Mexicans. They don't attend. Why? Bad parents. Yes, not everything is the fault of teachers. I stand corrected.

    Bad Latino and Mexican parents have condemned their children to a life time of inferiority, and they have condemned all other Americans to try to deal with the problems created by their gangbanging children.

    Not all cultures are equal. Chinese culture is superior to White, Black and Latino American cultures. The whites are weak and aimless, the blacks won't stay with the women they impregnate, and Latinos don't value education.

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    Re: South celebrates Civil War, largely without slaves

    Quote Originally Posted by independent_thinker2002 View Post
    Did "slavery" have a different definition back then?

    Was it slang for pornography or something?
    You continue to prove my point, since you haven't dealt with the fact that your garden variety Confederate soldier wasn't fighting to preserve slavery. They were fighitng to protect their rights and to defend their homes from what they percieved as a usurping and invading government.

    Your average southerner believed that if the government could take slaves from the ultra-rich, then the property rights of the working class meant alot less.

    The reasons that men fought for the Confederacy are so complex and dynamic, that to say it was, "all about preserving slavery", is a simple minded and uninformed prespective of that entire period of American history.

    1st Manassas started on the farm of a man named James Robinson; a freed slave. A freed slave, living in Confederate Virginia. Think about that one for a second.

    Longstreet lamented in 1863, that they should have freed the slaves and then fired on Sumter.

    Lee and Jackson petitioned the Confederate Congress to free slaves, in return for two years service in the Confederate Army.

    Anyone with even a little knowledge of the Civil War, knows that it wasn't, "all about preserving slavery". Had that been the case, Confederate generals, who had been born and raised in the north, would have never served in the Confederate Army. Sherman would have never written a letter to a southern politician, claiming that, "we both know that this war has nothing to do with freeing, nor keeping in bondage, the nigger".
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: South celebrates Civil War, largely without slaves

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    You continue to prove my point, since you haven't dealt with the fact that your garden variety Confederate soldier wasn't fighting to preserve slavery. They were fighitng to protect their rights and to defend their homes from what they percieved as a usurping and invading government.
    It doesn't matter what the average soldier was fighting for. The average soldier didn't make the policies that led to the war.

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Your average southerner believed that if the government could take slaves from the ultra-rich, then the property rights of the working class meant alot less.
    The government wasn't confiscating black folk.

    It would behoove you to not mention slaves when arguing that slaves were not one of the reasons for secession.

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    The reasons that men fought for the Confederacy are so complex and dynamic, that to say it was, "all about preserving slavery", is a simple minded and uninformed prespective of that entire period of American history.
    I never said it was all about slavery. I know this won't stop you from repeating that I did.

    Civic duty and ethnocentric rational was probably the most common reasons.

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    1st Manassas started on the farm of a man named James Robinson; a freed slave. A freed slave, living in Confederate Virginia. Think about that one for a second.
    Okay, I thought about it. "An injustice against one is an injustice to all." came to mind.

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Longstreet lamented in 1863, that they should have freed the slaves and then fired on Sumter.
    They should have left the word "slave" out of their letters of secession too.

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Lee and Jackson petitioned the Confederate Congress to free slaves, in return for two years service in the Confederate Army.


    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Anyone with even a little knowledge of the Civil War, knows that it wasn't, "all about preserving slavery". Had that been the case, Confederate generals, who had been born and raised in the north, would have never served in the Confederate Army. Sherman would have never written a letter to a southern politician, claiming that, "we both know that this war has nothing to do with freeing, nor keeping in bondage, the nigger".
    Did you miss the post where I told you that you should have mentioned the tariffs? I never said that it was "all about preserving slavery".
    Quote Originally Posted by faithful_servant View Post
    Being a psychiatric patient does not mean that you are mentally ill.



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    Re: South celebrates Civil War, largely without slaves

    Quote Originally Posted by independent_thinker2002 View Post
    Did "slavery" have a different definition back then?

    Was it slang for pornography or something?
    I'll touch it.

    Slavery back then was about property. They truely believed that slaves were at worse animals, at best sub-human. Animals of today are considered property. Even to the people who love them so much that they let their animals have the whole house while they sleep in a room no bigger than a jail cell.

    Today slavery is about people. Not property. So if you're going to look at the reasons that the Civil War started then you have to understand that it was about property and taxes. Not about people and taxes. It is all about thier point of view. Your point of view is about people. Thiers was about property.

    hmm...I've repeated myself here yes. Mainly to try and get a point across so I tried repeating myself in different ways. Hope it will help.
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    Re: South celebrates Civil War, largely without slaves

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    I'll touch it.

    Slavery back then was about property. They truely believed that slaves were at worse animals, at best sub-human. Animals of today are considered property. Even to the people who love them so much that they let their animals have the whole house while they sleep in a room no bigger than a jail cell.

    Today slavery is about people. Not property. So if you're going to look at the reasons that the Civil War started then you have to understand that it was about property and taxes. Not about people and taxes. It is all about thier point of view. Your point of view is about people. Thiers was about property.

    hmm...I've repeated myself here yes. Mainly to try and get a point across so I tried repeating myself in different ways. Hope it will help.
    Just because they suspend logic to rationalized and justify their exploitation and imprisonment of people. Sorry, I'm can't suspend reality. They were people back then too. Just because it was acceptable back then doesn't make it any less illogical and abhorrent. I know that they thought dark people could be property. It's absurd on it's face. Something that absurd is likely not going to end well. It didn't end well for them.
    Quote Originally Posted by faithful_servant View Post
    Being a psychiatric patient does not mean that you are mentally ill.



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    Re: South celebrates Civil War, largely without slaves

    Quote Originally Posted by Dutch View Post
    Race is a factor but not as much as you would imagine. If the parents are black and middle class the odds are their children will succeed in school
    Thomas Sowell has done some very interesting work with this. for example, black children raised in a house with a library card do just as well as white children raised in houses with library cards.

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