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Thread: South celebrates Civil War, largely without slaves

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    Re: South celebrates Civil War, largely without slaves

    Quote Originally Posted by reefedjib View Post
    It was pretty disastrous for the whole country. If Lincoln hadn't pressed the issue of Ft. Sumpter, we'd have a divided country and slavery may still be in effect. We would not have been able to fight the Spanish-American War, World War I or World War II, etc... Most of the world would be speaking German. By pressing Ft. Sumpter, 4 years of war and 620,000 men died, but the union was preserved and slavery abolished.

    The disastrous part of it all, in modern times, is that the federal government is too strong relative to the States.
    Make that Ft. Sumter. Damn phonetics.

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    Re: South celebrates Civil War, largely without slaves

    Quote Originally Posted by reefedjib View Post
    The disastrous part of it all, in modern times, is that the federal government is too strong relative to the States.
    That's not disastrous. That's how America was able to rise so quickly and become a global power. Pooling resources produces a stronger product than the sum of it's parts. It's unreasonable to think that a federation would remain weak. It's unreasonable to want to reap the benefits of a federation without having to feed it. If each state was it's own country I would suspect that we would have historically seen more wars on our soil and some states would probably be third world countries.
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    Re: South celebrates Civil War, largely without slaves

    Quote Originally Posted by independent_thinker2002 View Post
    That's not disastrous. That's how America was able to rise so quickly and become a global power. Pooling resources produces a stronger product than the sum of it's parts. It's unreasonable to think that a federation would remain weak. It's unreasonable to want to reap the benefits of a federation without having to feed it. If each state was it's own country I would suspect that we would have historically seen more wars on our soil and some states would probably be third world countries.
    I think you have presented a strawman by taking the opposite extreme. The combined economic power of states, without as strong of a central government in domestic affairs, but with a standing Army and federal foreign policy, as originally planned, would still have resulted in America being a global power. The only caveat is to prevent states from seceding so that we don't fragment. The only issue that would cause that was slavery. The civil war did prevent that. So, it was good the union was preserved.

    However, the resulting power differential in favor of the fed has hijacked the otherwise independent States in their domestic affairs. Result? Federal entitlements and laws forcing States to do things they may not have done otherwise. The disaster of deficit spending and growing debt. This has increased the power of the fed exponentially and made the 10th Amendment invalid. This was not the originally planned balance and calls into question whether we can claim we are a Federal Republic.

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    Re: South celebrates Civil War, largely without slaves

    Quote Originally Posted by reefedjib View Post
    overreaching central government.
    Haha, yes what was the government overreaching on? Slavery. Good game. Thank you for playing.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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    Re: South celebrates Civil War, largely without slaves

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Haha, yes what was the government overreaching on? Slavery. Good game. Thank you for playing.
    You should know the overreaching started to get bad in the 1830's and had nothing to do with slavery. Pick up a history book for once instead of acting like an expert.

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    Re: South celebrates Civil War, largely without slaves

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    You should know the overreaching started to get bad in the 1830's and had nothing to do with slavery. Pick up a history book for once instead of acting like an expert.
    Overreaching on what? The State Right to own slaves.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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    Re: South celebrates Civil War, largely without slaves

    Quote Originally Posted by independent_thinker2002 View Post
    That's not disastrous. That's how America was able to rise so quickly and become a global power. Pooling resources produces a stronger product than the sum of it's parts. It's unreasonable to think that a federation would remain weak. It's unreasonable to want to reap the benefits of a federation without having to feed it. If each state was it's own country I would suspect that we would have historically seen more wars on our soil and some states would probably be third world countries.
    The federal system allows the American Left to impose it's will upon us permanently when they obtain a window of opportunity to do so. Example, ramming Obamacare down our throats. That means the federal system is too dangerous to exist in it's current form.

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    Re: South celebrates Civil War, largely without slaves

    Quote Originally Posted by reefedjib View Post
    I think you have presented a strawman by taking the opposite extreme. The combined economic power of states, without as strong of a central government in domestic affairs, but with a standing Army and federal foreign policy, as originally planned, would still have resulted in America being a global power. The only caveat is to prevent states from seceding so that we don't fragment. The only issue that would cause that was slavery. The civil war did prevent that. So, it was good the union was preserved.

    However, the resulting power differential in favor of the fed has hijacked the otherwise independent States in their domestic affairs. Result? Federal entitlements and laws forcing States to do things they may not have done otherwise. The disaster of deficit spending and growing debt. This has increased the power of the fed exponentially and made the 10th Amendment invalid. This was not the originally planned balance and calls into question whether we can claim we are a Federal Republic.
    I think you want your cake and to eat it too.
    Quote Originally Posted by faithful_servant View Post
    Being a psychiatric patient does not mean that you are mentally ill.



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    Re: South celebrates Civil War, largely without slaves

    Quote Originally Posted by Albert Di Salvo View Post
    The federal system allows the American Left to impose it's will upon us permanently when they obtain a window of opportunity to do so. Example, ramming Obamacare down our throats. That means the federal system is too dangerous to exist in it's current form.
    Health care is too dangerous.

    Funny.

    He should have started a war instead. That's much safer.
    Quote Originally Posted by faithful_servant View Post
    Being a psychiatric patient does not mean that you are mentally ill.



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    Re: South celebrates Civil War, largely without slaves

    Quote Originally Posted by Heavy Duty View Post
    And history and the record of it claims otherwise.




    Was the War Fought Over Slavery? | American Civil War
    Again, you attempt to cover up the reason for the Civil War and secession, by fabricating a history that never was, and by providing red herrings and straw men in your vain attempt to prove that this was not about slavery. Who gives a rat's ass about what Lincoln thought? Lincoln did not secede from the Union. THE SOUTH DID, and here is why:


    It is not the North that seceeded from the Union. Neither was it Lincoln who split up the Union. Whatever Lincoln's motives were, for keeping the Union together, came AFTER the South seceeded, and is completely immaterial to the reason that the South left the Union. The reasons are in black and white, preserved for all forever, written in the very hands of those who seceeded.

    Do I need to keep posting the writings of those who seceeded, or will you stop attempting to fabricate history? The ball is in your court. If you have a problem with what I posted here, don't take it up with me. Take it up, instead, with those who created the historical documents. Your beef is with them, but I have to tell you that you don't stand much of a chance winning the argument with them. After all, THEY are the ones who, in spite of your efforts to change history, created those documents.
    Last edited by danarhea; 12-02-10 at 10:41 PM.
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