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Thread: South celebrates Civil War, largely without slaves

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    Re: South celebrates Civil War, largely without slaves

    I think it's stupid in my opinion. One thing I hate about the south is the "Dixie pride" concept and all the confederate flags... minus the slavery and killing of US soldiers. Even if they aren't even thinking about slavery I find it foolish to celebrate the south's flexing of its muscles, losing to the north, and now dancing around celebrating the fact that they wanted to split from the Union. I will never understand "Dixie pride."
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    Re: South celebrates Civil War, largely without slaves

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    If you do not focus on the bad parts as well, you will be doomed to repeat it.

    I think this is sending the wrong message.
    Not sure it's "sending the wrong message". The celebration isn't so much over the Civil War itself; but the actual secession from the union itself. In general, it's not a bad thing. There is plenty of history which cannot be ignored, but at the same time we can't really apply the conditions of the Civil War to the current celebration which attempts to exalt State "rights". Slavery was a large reason as to why we fought the Civil War, but it's a dead institituion now and these people are not celebrating slavery or making some movement to reinstall it. Rather, they are celebrating the fact that 11 States broke off from the Union and essentially making the claim that secession is still valid.
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    Re: South celebrates Civil War, largely without slaves

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    ATLANTA — The Civil War, the most wrenching and bloody episode in American history, may not seem like much of a cause for celebration, especially in the South.

    And yet, as the 150th anniversary of the four-year conflict gets under way, some groups in the old Confederacy are planning at least a certain amount of hoopla, chiefly around the glory days of secession, when 11 states declared their sovereignty under a banner of states’ rights and broke from the union.

    The events include a “secession ball” in the former slave port of Charleston (“a joyous night of music, dancing, food and drink,” says the invitation), which will be replicated on a smaller scale in other cities.
    - NYT: South celebrates Civil War, without slaves - U.S. news - The New York Times - msnbc.com

    I don't think it's a big deal but, how can you "celebrate" the "Civil War" without mentioning one of it's main causes?
    i DO think it's a big deal, it disgusts me that people celebrate the attempted destruction of our union, at the same time ignoring one of the causes for the war.

    Originally Posted by johnny_rebson:

    These are the same liberals who forgot how Iraq attacked us on 9/11.


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    Re: South celebrates Civil War, largely without slaves

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Pretty simple.

    Its the same way we celebrate the independence of our country without mentioning the wholesale slaughter and near genocide of the natives in this land.

    When you look back to study and learn from history you acknowledge and take to heart the mistakes history had. However, when you look back to celebrate history you focus on the good and worth while. History teaches us many things...both mistakes and virtues...and there's no reason that in every look back at history one must focus on all issues of it.
    what "good and worthwhile" aspects are the celebrants looking back at?

    Originally Posted by johnny_rebson:

    These are the same liberals who forgot how Iraq attacked us on 9/11.


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    Re: South celebrates Civil War, largely without slaves

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    I find it peculiar to celebrate a war, period. Very strange.

    Let's have a celebration to mark the start of WWII. Makes as much sense.

    Honor the fallen? That I can understand. Commemorate the South's attempt at sovereignty? I can understand that. But celebrate the Civil War? How weird.
    I know. that 4th of July stuff is pretty stupid too

    /sarcasm

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    Re: South celebrates Civil War, largely without slaves

    Quote Originally Posted by liblady View Post
    i DO think it's a big deal, it disgusts me that people celebrate the attempted destruction of our union, at the same time ignoring one of the causes for the war.
    Doesn't matter what the cause is. I think people are being real stupid on this "OMG they didn't mention slavery!" kick. It's deflect and uninspired tripe. The cause for secession can be anything, including abusive power and force used against the States by the federal government. The point being, secession is valid for States wishing to exit the Union when the Union no longer serves a positive function to the State. Of course it will cause a war, you go into it knowing that. The federal government is charged with preserving the Republic. But secession is still a valid tool to be used by the States should it ever become necessary. In my mind, these celebrations are a reminder of that. Of our duty to the Republic, to our freedom; and the necessity for resolve towards our principles.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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    Re: South celebrates Civil War, largely without slaves

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    We celebrate the founding of our country, a founding that could not have happened if we had not slaughtered and displaced the native people.
    Not true. We celebrate the founding of our country which happened long before we systematically started wiping out the native Americans. We celebrate our "Independence" from England. not "founding" that is why it is called "Independence day."

    "The Congress met in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania and they appointed a committee (a group of people working together to do a specific job) to write a formal document that would tell Great Britain that the Americans had decided to govern themselves. The committee asked Thomas Jefferson to write a draft (first try) of the document, so he worked for days, in absolute secret, until he had written a document that he thought said everything important that the committee had discussed.

    On June 28, 1776, the committee met to read Jefferson's "fair" copy (he put his best ideas together and wrote them neatly.) They revised (made some changes) the document and declared their independence on July 2, 1776. They officially adopted it (made it theirs) on July 4, 1776. That is why we call it "Independence Day." Congress ordered that all members must sign the Declaration of Independence and they all began signing the "official" copy on August 2, 1776. In January of the next year, Congress sent signed copies to all of the states.


    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Godwin'ed in 8 posts. Woot.
    Totally skipping the point.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    So we're doomed to wipe out indiginous people because we don't continually focus on our treatment of the indians anytime we talk about history?
    Because it has nothing to do with the Civil War or our Independence from England.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    You act as if talk of Slavery never takes place in the south. It does. I grew up in the south, I remember routinely hearing about the horrors of slavery, how bad it was, how wrong it was, etc. Its not like its just not present. However, everytime you look back on history you do not have to focus on the bad at all times.
    What the South did was wrong, it should be remembered in any "celebration" of the Civil War. To many people died to ignore it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    When we celebrate or talk about American History we don't focus on the fact the country as a whole was made on the back of slaves. We don't focus on our slaughter and displacement of native Americans. We don't focus on our internment of Japanese, Italian, and German people when talking about and celebrating our victory or our soldiers of WWII. And on and on. Simply because we don't focus on those things EVERY TIME we talk about or celebrate a facet of history that took place around them doesn't mean those things aren't brought up, taught, or learned from.
    Hyper southern hyperbole. We look at the bad as well as the good.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    To be honest, the purpose of the message isn't meant for you and I dare say that many of those celebrating it don't really care what message you're getting from it based on your own biases and preconceptions of what those people think or feel. I'm pretty sure their celebration is meant in large part of those that are doing the celebrating, and for them the message is pretty clear.
    Oh we know exactly what the message is, and it is clear. Fortunately they lost the war.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Living in the south my whole life I know many southerners who feel they have "southern pride" or embody what it is to be a "southerner". I can't say I've ever met one that has stated they thought slavery was great, that they want to bring slavery back, or that slavery was perfectly okay.
    You make it sound like racism in the South is just something people are imagining.

    Most of my family is from Louisiana and Mississippi. So don't discount what I am saying based on your anecdotal evidence.

    Fact is it is alive and well in allot of places, not just the deep South.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    The only people who seem to be getting that "message" from those type of people seem to be the ones who want to find "code words" or act as mind readers so as to tell those people what they're REALLY saying or what they're REALLY meaning.
    The message is wrong.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
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    Re: South celebrates Civil War, largely without slaves

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Not sure it's "sending the wrong message". The celebration isn't so much over the Civil War itself; but the actual secession from the union itself. In general, it's not a bad thing. There is plenty of history which cannot be ignored, but at the same time we can't really apply the conditions of the Civil War to the current celebration which attempts to exalt State "rights". Slavery was a large reason as to why we fought the Civil War, but it's a dead institituion now and these people are not celebrating slavery or making some movement to reinstall it. Rather, they are celebrating the fact that 11 States broke off from the Union and essentially making the claim that secession is still valid.
    But it's not valid and they did it for the wrong reasons. The first thing they did with the new Constitution after the formation of the confederacy was make it so slavery could not be removed. Yea for states rights.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

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    Re: South celebrates Civil War, largely without slaves

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    You make it sound like racism in the South is just something people are imagining.
    And really we get to the heart of it. Evil horrible racists hate the black people. Shocking, I couldn't have guessed that was really at the heart of the complaint and it was all based on stereotyping people.

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    Re: South celebrates Civil War, largely without slaves

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Doesn't matter what the cause is. I think people are being real stupid on this "OMG they didn't mention slavery!" kick. It's deflect and uninspired tripe. The cause for secession can be anything, including abusive power and force used against the States by the federal government. The point being, secession is valid for States wishing to exit the Union when the Union no longer serves a positive function to the State. Of course it will cause a war, you go into it knowing that. The federal government is charged with preserving the Republic. But secession is still a valid tool to be used by the States should it ever become necessary. In my mind, these celebrations are a reminder of that. Of our duty to the Republic, to our freedom; and the necessity for resolve towards our principles.
    That is not what this is about. They have nothing to celebrate. I can understand celebrating Southern pride (whatever that is) but they are making excuses to celebrate something that should not be celebrated. IT divided us and killed far to many and ended an institution that was barbaric. Yea, allot to celebrate there.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

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