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Thread: South celebrates Civil War, largely without slaves

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    Re: South celebrates Civil War, largely without slaves

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    It was fought for states rights. The right of a state to determine it's own destiny.

    Specifically, the right of a state to enslave other human beings.

    Claiming the Civil War was fought over state's rights or tarriffs is a loathsome attempt to obfuscate the primary motivation for the South's bid for independence.

    Slavery's days were numbered. Mechinization would have ended slavery in another 10 years and everyone knew it and it didn't take a war, billions of dollars in destroyed property and a half million lives to make that happen.
    Ten years is an arbitrary number you pulled right our of your ass. If you want to blame anyone for the Civil War blame the Southern aristocracy for starting it to preserve the South's slave based economy. The Reconstruction era accelerated the enfranchisement of blacks and the granting of full civil rights to them.

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    Re: South celebrates Civil War, largely without slaves

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    That's because you think it's all about slavery.

    Less than 1% of all Southerners and even fewer Confederate soldiers owned slaves.

    But, hey, let's don't let historical facts get in our way.
    The Southern aristocracy controlled the South and the Democratic party in the South. The South used a slave based economy.

    This isn't the first time the wealthy elite have convinced the ignorant masses to fight against their own interests. What's particularly galling is that 150 years later you still have ignorant yokels buying into those dusty old rationalizations.

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    Re: South celebrates Civil War, largely without slaves

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    It was fought for states rights. The right of a state to determine it's own destiny.

    It was about property rights. "If, today, the government can take our slaves, where does it end?". The reason that most people can't see that, is that the extent of their education about the period, are the articles of seccesion. Replace, "slavery", with, "2nd Amendment". Would that mean that the Civil War was fought purely so people could own guns, or was it fought to protect all constitutional rights?

    Slavery's days were numbered. Mechinization would have ended slavery in another 10 years and everyone knew it and it didn't take a war, billions of dollars in destroyed property and a half million lives to make that happen.

    The, "it's all about slavery", crowd probably set the American black community back by 50 years, or more with the anomosity that was created in the Reconstruction South.
    No it wasn't. The declarations of secession by the various Southern states explicitly state it was because of slavery. Period.
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    Re: South celebrates Civil War, largely without slaves

    I'm curious about something. What history are white people allowed to celebrate without recrimination. Should white people celebrate black history or the accomplishments of La Raza.

    Remember that assimilation is dead. There is only multiculturalism in which each identity group has its own culture and identity. So what identity should white people celebrate?

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    Re: South celebrates Civil War, largely without slaves

    Quote Originally Posted by Albert Di Salvo View Post
    I'm curious about something. What history are white people allowed to celebrate without recrimination. Should white people celebrate black history or the accomplishments of La Raza.

    Remember that assimilation is dead. There is only multiculturalism in which each identity group has its own culture and identity. So what identity should white people celebrate?
    That is a straw man if I ever saw one. White people can celebrate white history all they want. However, celebrating the Civil War is not celebrating white history. It is upholding the view that it is OK to regard black people as property instead of human beings. Personally, if I were celebrating white history, I would not want to include the Confederacy as part of it. That would be totally embarrassing to me. But some people still do. The last time I talked to someone who held that view to heart, it was during a gig I played in Camilla, Texas. The guy who said it was part of the Camilla Knights of the Ku Klux Klan. Yea, they are still around, and they still spew that same dumb old crap about white history being politically incorrect, while black history is revered.

    Also, whites DO celebrate white history. I am half Irish, so celebrate Irish history. I am also half Jewish, so celebrate Jewish history. Italians celebrate Italian history, Poles celebrate Polish history, French celebrate their many military defeats and surrenders , etc. etc. However, blacks don't have a national pride to celebrate, since their identities were all stripped from them, when they were kidnapped from their various nations and tribes. Therefore, they can only celebrate black history, instead of Ethiopian, Ghanan, and other national and tribal histories. DUH!! However, racists here in Texas still play it as black history vs. white history, which is about as dishonestly and blatantly racist as you can get. It's all about the hate, folks. That's all it is.
    Last edited by danarhea; 12-02-10 at 01:39 AM.
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    Re: South celebrates Civil War, largely without slaves

    Quote Originally Posted by danarhea View Post
    That is a straw man if I ever saw one. White people can celebrate white history all they want. However, celebrating the Civil War is not celebrating white history. It is upholding the view that it is OK to regard black people as property instead of human beings. Personally, if I were celebrating white history, I would not want to include the Confederacy as part of it. That would be totally embarrassing to me. But some people still do. The last time I talked to someone who held that view to heart, it was during a gig I played in Camilla, Texas. The guy who said it was part of the Camilla Knights of the Ku Klux Klan. Yea, they are still around, and they still spew that same dumb old crap about white history being politically incorrect, while black history is revered.

    Also, whites DO celebrate white history. I am half Irish, so celebrate Irish history. I am also half Jewish, so celebrate Jewish history. Italians celebrate Italian history, Poles celebrate Polish history, French celebrate their many military defeats and surrenders , etc. etc. However, blacks don't have a national pride to celebrate, since their identities were all stripped from them, when they were kidnapped from their various nations and tribes. Therefore, they can only celebrate black history, instead of Ethiopian, Ghanan, and other national and tribal histories. DUH!! However, racists here in Texas still play it as black history vs. white history, which is about as dishonestly and blatantly racist as you can get. It's all about the hate, folks. That's all it is.
    What role does the white genocide of American Indians play in the celebration of the white history to which you refer? What role does White Privilege play in the celebration of the white history to which you refer?
    What about the white Californians who murdered Indians, and murdered Mexicans? What about the white oppression that caused the Watts Riots?

    For some reason you have a hard on for white southerners. I don't know why. But the very things that damn white southerners damn all white people.

    So all of white history is murderous by the standards to which you hold white southerners.

    Irish history isn't pan-european white american history. Jewish history is not pan-european white american history. I can remember when Jews were marginalized. They weren't part of that identity.

    So holding you to your standard, no white american identity should be celebrated. Ok, works for me. I like Chinese people better than whites any way.
    Last edited by Albert Di Salvo; 12-02-10 at 01:49 AM.

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    Re: South celebrates Civil War, largely without slaves

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    It was fought for states rights. The right of a state to determine it's own destiny.
    Determine its own destiny? Why don't you pick up a book called 'Gorgias'. It's by Plato. It explains that no matter how much you cover a point in rhetoric, facts will always defeat you in the end. The reality is that the facts show that the states had 1 reason for seccession, and that was the preservation of slavery as an institution.

    It was about property rights. "If, today, the government can take our slaves, where does it end?". The reason that most people can't see that, is that the extent of their education about the period, are the articles of seccesion. Replace, "slavery", with, "2nd Amendment". Would that mean that the Civil War was fought purely so people could own guns, or was it fought to protect all constitutional rights?
    Where does what end? That's not a very convincing argument. If anything it shows how weak your case is. You are saying that slavery was argued for on the basis that by losing it, they'd lose 'other rights'. However, owning slaves was never a right held by the state. It was a convention. There is a difference.

    Slavery's days were numbered. Mechinization would have ended slavery in another 10 years and everyone knew it and it didn't take a war, billions of dollars in destroyed property and a half million lives to make that happen.

    The, "it's all about slavery", crowd probably set the American black community back by 50 years, or more with the anomosity that was created in the Reconstruction South.
    The kind of mental abortion you have posted above is not worth replying to. Pick up a history book why don't you? The South had absolutely NO intention of giving up slavery because of mechanization. Mechanized farm work would not even appear for another 50 years. Are you this f'n ignorant of history?
    Last edited by Hatuey; 12-02-10 at 02:20 AM.
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    Re: South celebrates Civil War, largely without slaves

    Quote Originally Posted by Albert Di Salvo View Post
    What role does the white genocide of American Indians play in the celebration of the white history to which you refer? What role does White Privilege play in the celebration of the white history to which you refer?
    What about the white Californians who murdered Indians, and murdered Mexicans? What about the white oppression that caused the Watts Riots?

    For some reason you have a hard on for white southerners. I don't know why. But the very things that damn white southerners damn all white people.

    So all of white history is murderous by the standards to which you hold white southerners.

    Irish history isn't pan-european white american history. Jewish history is not pan-european white american history. I can remember when Jews were marginalized. They weren't part of that identity.

    So holding you to your standard, no white american identity should be celebrated. Ok, works for me. I like Chinese people better than whites any way.
    The problem with these Southerners in question is that they want to celebrate the ugly part of their history. Good grief, they lost, it's time they create a new legacy instead of being stuck in the ugly past.
    Quote Originally Posted by faithful_servant View Post
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    Re: South celebrates Civil War, largely without slaves

    Quote Originally Posted by independent_thinker2002 View Post
    The problem with these Southerners in question is that they want to celebrate the ugly part of their history. Good grief, they lost, it's time they create a new legacy instead of being stuck in the ugly past.
    The worst part about it is that a lot of those supporting this celebration are the biggest defenders of all that which is 'American'. Apparently, it hasn't dawned on them that celebrating the time the South tried to split from America is.... well.... un-American. We don't go out with ribbons on the street celebrating the time the Japanese attacked us. The Japanese don't celebrate Pearl Harbor. Germans don't celebrate attacking Poland. Seems to me like all this bull**** about celebrating 'Southern Heritage' is nothing more than an excuse.
    Last edited by Hatuey; 12-02-10 at 02:46 AM.
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    Re: South celebrates Civil War, largely without slaves

    If you have ever spent much time in the rural south you find that the racism we seldom see and I never saw as a kid in Southern California. Many people in the South live in the past.

    Sorry but I have seen it close up in Mississippi, and Louisiana having once lived and been relate to Southerners for a long time. As I see it the more educated the less racist people tended to be.

    People who are complaining about our Celebration of our Independence, from England and the tyranny of King George (No not that George) fail to understand that we are focusing on the positive not those who suffered.

    It would be like complaining that we can't celebrate Thanksgiving because so many people died prior to that first celebration.

    It's a celebration of life and the joy of being alive.

    To celebrate the Civil War is to be mentally challenged at the very least.

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