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Wikileaks cables reveal China 'ready to abandon North Korea'

Yes, but in the article it says they supported re-unification under the southern korean government. While i wouldn't call this concrete evidence, it does lend its support to the idea of china supporting reunification under the south korean government.

and clearly when we finally get to a point where plans are laid out for reunification, its going to have to be a slow process. But even just getting to a point where that can begin is going to be rough riding.
 
The Xenologist said:
Yes, but in the article it says they supported re-unification under the southern korean government. While i wouldn't call this concrete evidence, it does lend its support to the idea of china supporting reunification under the south korean government.

and clearly when we finally get to a point where plans are laid out for reunification, its going to have to be a slow process. But even just getting to a point where that can begin is going to be rough riding.
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Glad to see there's some pragmatists in Beijing, the chinese aren't stupid man, I'll give them that. Not as dogmatic as the Soviet Union was.

I really think if there's gonna be any reunification, I think China, and not America will have to take the lead in it from the outside. If they managed to work a deal with the New Leader after Kim Jong Il, it could happen.

But that's pretty wishful thinking.
 
ludahai said:
Frankly, I don't buy it. It may be the statements of some officials, but nothing from the politburo or the policies and actions of China's government indicate this whatsoever. Even when the Chinese recently did not veto sanctions against the DPRK, they go ahead and ship more across the "Friendship Bridge" at Dandong...
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China is saying one thing to American diplomats, but China's words and actions are inconsistent. This phenomenon is called duplicity. It works because American diplomacy is based on the triumph of hope over experience.
 
I'm also a little skeptical. First of all, any transition would have to involve willful cooperation from NK, and I don't think that is going to happen. NK giving up its current powers?

Also... if there is a reunification, do people seriously think that China will want the new Korea to be democratic? That would mean China being surrounded on all sides by democracies. And with American soldiers stationed there? You can forget it. NK has been the geographic gateway to China. They are not going to let America sit at the door like that.
 
Orion said:
I'm also a little skeptical. First of all, any transition would have to involve willful cooperation from NK, and I don't think that is going to happen. NK giving up its current powers?

Also... if there is a reunification, do people seriously think that China will want the new Korea to be democratic? That would mean China being surrounded on all sides by democracies. And with American soldiers stationed there? You can forget it. NK has been the geographic gateway to China. They are not going to let America sit at the door like that.
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Ah but you're forgetting the whole purpose of American troops being there in the first place, to Defend South Korea from North, once reunification has happened I'm sure a deal will be struck to have American Forces withdrawn. They still have Japan, they wouldn't mind.

As for China and surrounded by Democracies? Their biggest trading partner in the world is a democracy, I don't think they're concerned about it. They don't have mass hysteria about democracy, as Americans do about communism.
 
Jetboogieman said:
Ah but you're forgetting the whole purpose of American troops being there in the first place, to Defend South Korea from North, once reunification has happened I'm sure a deal will be struck to have American Forces withdrawn. They still have Japan, they wouldn't mind.
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The U.S. actually shutting down one of its bases in a strategically valuable area? No way.

Jetboogieman said:
As for China and surrounded by Democracies? Their biggest trading partner in the world is a democracy, I don't think they're concerned about it. They don't have mass hysteria about democracy, as Americans do about communism.
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China doesn't care about the political orientation of its trading partners. Everyone needs China and China knows it. We could hate China's guts and we would still have to trade with them in order to remain competitive in the current scheme. But that doesn't mean China will ignore basic security concerns near its borders.
 
Jetboogieman said:
Ah but you're forgetting the whole purpose of American troops being there in the first place, to Defend South Korea from North,....
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The portion of your post quoted above is factually incorrect. US troops came to the rescue of South Korea in order to defend Japan.
 
Jetboogieman said:
Ah but you're forgetting the whole purpose of American troops being there in the first place, to Defend South Korea from North, once reunification has happened I'm sure a deal will be struck to have American Forces withdrawn. They still have Japan, they wouldn't mind.

As for China and surrounded by Democracies? Their biggest trading partner in the world is a democracy, I don't think they're concerned about it. They don't have mass hysteria about democracy, as Americans do about communism.
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If you could read Chinese, you would have a different opinion of this...
 
ludahai said:
If you could read Chinese, you would have a different opinion of this...
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I've noticed in my time in China that they don't necessarily come out and trash democracy directly. They sort of couch the hatred of it in cultural terms by referring to Chinese governance as "our way of life" vs. "the American way of life". You know how dictatorships can be with their clever wording of things.
 
apdst said:
The surprising part would be that China is ready to, "to accept Korean reunification ", under a capitalist, democratic government.

Runification? Yes. Reunification under anything less than a Communist--or socialist--government? I don't buy it.
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China hasn't been interested in exporting ideology since the days of Mao. And even if it was, communism/socialism certainly wouldn't be its ideology of choice.
 
Gray_Fox_86 said:
HA! Chinease are notorious for saying what you want to hear. Until the final moment they won't tell you the truth. Its part of their customs to avoid conflict. They will be all nice and such but when you go for the business signing. They won't sign it and they will tell you no.
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I think that American diplomats who have spent their entire lives studying China are well aware of the cultural differences and fully take that into account when writing memos. It's not a matter of them "not telling the truth," it's just a different cultural perception. And any reasonably adept American who has spent some time in the culture should be able to read between the lines of what they directly say.
 
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Orion said:
I'm also a little skeptical. First of all, any transition would have to involve willful cooperation from NK, and I don't think that is going to happen. NK giving up its current powers?

Also... if there is a reunification, do people seriously think that China will want the new Korea to be democratic? That would mean China being surrounded on all sides by democracies. And with American soldiers stationed there? You can forget it. NK has been the geographic gateway to China. They are not going to let America sit at the door like that.
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They probably wouldn't want American troops on their border, but I see no reason to think they'd have a problem with a democratic Korea. China doesn't particularly care what ideology its neighbors adopt, they just care if they're friendly to China.

And China isn't surrounded by democracies. Of the 14 countries that border China, only 2 (Mongolia and India) are rated "Free" by Freedom House. Another 3 (Pakistan, Nepal, Bhutan) are "Partly Free." All the others are unfree.
 
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Orion said:
I've noticed in my time in China that they don't necessarily come out and trash democracy directly. They sort of couch the hatred of it in cultural terms by referring to Chinese governance as "our way of life" vs. "the American way of life". You know how dictatorships can be with their clever wording of things.
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I don't see what's so horrible about that. Lots of countries, including liberal European democracies, are fond of comparing their way of life to the American way of life.
 
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