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Congressman wants WikiLeaks listed as terrorist group

Ikari said:
And those who actually know how to read would know the arrest warrant isn't for what he's done with Wikileaks.
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I was responding to what you said, not about the arrest warrant. That wasn't under discussion nor it the subject of this debate.

This is what you said.

"Publishing crap didn't do anything to them. Let's be honest about this. They're in harms way because of our aggressive, interventionist, state-building policies. Not because some d-bag put some **** on the internet".

That's what i was responding to. No further red herrings please.
 
Ikari said:
That's very authoratative. I do not believe it is universally true. For instance, what the founding fathers did was illegal. Treason even. But I think it's very praise worthy.
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The founders had documented grievences for the previous 20 years; Assange and Wikileaks are bunch of criminals. They're completely different. Manning needs to be shot by a firing squad.
 
Grant said:
I was responding to what you said, not about the arrest warrant. That wasn't under discussion nor it the subject of this debate.

This is what you said.

"Publishing crap didn't do anything to them. Let's be honest about this. They're in harms way because of our aggressive, interventionist, state-building policies. Not because some d-bag put some **** on the internet".

That's what i was responding to. No further red herrings please.
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Yes, and your post had nothing to do with that statement. Instead, you said something like "those who know better would disagree" and pointed to the arrest warrant. Which indicates that those in the know issued the arrest warrant because what he did with Wikileaks put people in the operation at risk. But the arrest warrant was not issued because what he put on the internet was causing a danger to operations in the middle east. But with your comment you purposefully and misleadingly made it sound like that was the case.

And that is the basis of my comment to you. No further stupidity please.
 
American said:
The founders had documented grievences for the previous 20 years; Assange and Wikileaks are bunch of criminals. They're completely different. Manning needs to be shot by a firing squad.
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Perhaps, perhaps we don't have a documented propaganda list because we don't have the information to make one and what shall come from Wikileaks could form a basis for something similar. We don't know. The point was that your authoritative absolute statement that doing illegal things shouldn't be praised is not actually an absolute. Perhaps you can say that in this case, the illegal thing this guy did was not praise worthy. But in general, there can be illegal acts which are indeed very praise worthy.
 
American said:
What they did is illegal. That is not a standard we should praise.
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What they did is constitutionally protected. That is a standard we should praise. That is what the press is for. They're there to uncover those unpleasant truths that help us keep our leaders honest. Would it be wrong to expose stories of rape in the military during war time? It could hurt troop morale, distract them, and make them more vulnerable to being killed in combat. Everything has consequences, and it would be absurd and incredibly indicative of a tyrannical and militaristic state to assume that information like this must be kept secret. Our leaders cannot be above the law, nor above public reproach.
 
samsmart said:
This is bull****. If the WikiLeakers really were as courageous as you say, then why haven't they done any dumps of leaks on the People's Republic of China, the Russian Federation, the European Union, or even African countries on the level that they've done from leaks from the United States?
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It is not because they have some agenda against the United States. Due to a confluence of circumstances the biggest leaks are those concerning the United States. Chalk it up to our culture, less restrictive measures allowing more people the chance to leak, and more public availability of the site.

Keep in mind also these three big leaks concerning Afghanistan, Iraq, and these State Department cables are all believed to be from one individual.
 
Kal'Stang said:
Really? So what if someone leaked info to MSNBC or FOX or some other official news agency? Would they be considered the same by you?
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absolutely. if you betray the trust put in you by the American people to keep them safe, then they should hunt you down and have you shot. frankly, the editorial board of the New York Times belongs in Prison.
 
cpwill said:
absolutely. if you betray the trust put in you by the American people to keep them safe, then they should hunt you down and have you shot. frankly, the editorial board of the New York Times belongs in Prison.
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And this is how fascist regimes start!
 
Ikari said:
Yes, and your post had nothing to do with that statement. Instead, you said something like "those who know better would disagree" and pointed to the arrest warrant. Which indicates that those in the know issued the arrest warrant because what he did with Wikileaks put people in the operation at risk. But the arrest warrant was not issued because what he put on the internet was causing a danger to operations in the middle east. But with your comment you purposefully and misleadingly made it sound like that was the case.

And that is the basis of my comment to you. No further stupidity please.
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"Instead, you said something like..."

You have the attention sopan of a flea.

Learn how to use the quote system.
 
It is not a reporters job to air classify info. When they knowingly air classified info they are just as bad or worse than traitor who gave them the info.
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The New York Times falls into this category. What would you do with them?
 
Grant said:
"Instead, you said something like..."

You have the attention sopan of a flea.

Learn how to use the quote system.
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That's it. That's all you got? You made a stupid comment and tried to portray the arrest warrant as speaking to a subject it was in fact not speak to. And all you can come up with is "learn how to use the quote system". Lame.
 
oldreliable67 said:
The New York Times falls into this category. What would you do with them?
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This is what the New York Tomes said about "Climategate".

“The documents appear to have been acquired illegally and contain all manner of private information and statements that were never intended for the public eye, so they won’t be posted here.”

However they did a 180 on deciding to publish stolen documents which are a threat to US security and American lives.

Flashback: NYT Refused to Publish Stolen Documents | The American Pundit
 
digsbe said:
They are stealing and putting lives at risk. They are outlaws and should be arrested.
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How are they putting lives at risk? No one has been killed or maimed due to their past dumps
 
Mr. Invisible said:
How are they putting lives at risk? No one has been killed or maimed due to their past dumps
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How do you know that for a fact? how can you be so positive that situations won't arise due to these leaks?

j-mac
 
j-mac said:
How do you know that for a fact? how can you be so positive that situations won't arise due to these leaks?

j-mac
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Are you saying that now that these leaks are known, our government and military are completely unable to handle it and cannot adapt and evolve to the current situation at hand? Wow...you really sell them short.
 
Ikari said:
Are you saying that now that these leaks are known, our government and military are completely unable to handle it and cannot adapt and evolve to the current situation at hand? Wow...you really sell them short.
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I am saying that there could be consequences unforeseen nor cared about from the likes of Assange/Soros. Look, if I made an equally definitive statement about anything in these boards Ikari, I could almost bet that you would call me on it. So why do you protect it now?

j-mac
 
j-mac said:
I am saying that there could be consequences unforeseen nor cared about from the likes of Assange/Soros. Look, if I made an equally definitive statement about anything in these boards Ikari, I could almost bet that you would call me on it. So why do you protect it now?

j-mac
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Because nothing I have seen would seem to indicate that our troops are in any more danger now than they were before. I'm not going to assume that they are. We'll wait and see. But the worst that leaks can do is to give away information about movements/positions/identities of people in the field, unable to communicate, or in middle of an operation they cannot withdraw from so that ambush becomes easy to set up. But they've had time now, and while we're still in war zones (our pointless, aggressive, interventionist war "strategy", BTW, has put well more Americans at risk than these leaks will ever do) they can adapt and make different plans. I don't see how the "leaks" would stop any of our plans or significantly change the danger levels particularly since we've had time to learn about them and adapt to their presence.

I'm not going to jump to conclusions saying "OMG, information came out and now we're all doomed....DOOOOOOOOOOOMED!".
 
Ikari said:
Because nothing I have seen would seem to indicate that our troops are in any more danger now than they were before. I'm not going to assume that they are. We'll wait and see. But the worst that leaks can do is to give away information about movements/positions/identities of people in the field, unable to communicate, or in middle of an operation they cannot withdraw from so that ambush becomes easy to set up. But they've had time now, and while we're still in war zones (our pointless, aggressive, interventionist war "strategy", BTW, has put well more Americans at risk than these leaks will ever do) they can adapt and make different plans. I don't see how the "leaks" would stop any of our plans or significantly change the danger levels particularly since we've had time to learn about them and adapt to their presence.

I'm not going to jump to conclusions saying "OMG, information came out and now we're all doomed....DOOOOOOOOOOOMED!".
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I think you are taking my position to the extreme a little here. Look, can you imagine a scenario where someone that was working with us in say Afghanistan now pulls away, or gets killed because his name is now known by the enemy? or not? or you don't care?

j-mac
 
j-mac said:
I think you are taking my position to the extreme a little here. Look, can you imagine a scenario where someone that was working with us in say Afghanistan now pulls away, or gets killed because his name is now known by the enemy? or not? or you don't care?

j-mac
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I don't think that they disclosed the names of any spys, did they? If so, then yes that's a possibility. But for the average soldier, I don't think that the terrorists are targeting a specific guy. I think they shoot at whomever has the uniform on....and civilians.
 
Ikari said:
I don't think that they disclosed the names of any spys, did they?
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Our Government thinks so.

Updated | 12:36 p.m. A spokesman for the Taliban told Britain’s Channel 4 News on Thursday that the insurgent group is scouring classified American military documents posted online by the group WikiLeaks for information to help them find and “punish” Afghan informers.

Speaking by telephone from an undisclosed location, Zabihullah Mujahid, who frequently contacts news organizations, including The Times on behalf of the Taliban, said, “We are studying the report.” He added:

We knew about the spies and people who collaborate with U.S. forces. We will investigate through our own secret service whether the people mentioned are really spies working for the U.S. If they are U.S. spies, then we know how to punish them.

Steve Coll, an expert on the region and a former senior editor of The Washington Post, said in a New Yorker podcast on Thursday, “my reading of the disclosure of these informants in the context of Taliban-menaced southern Afghanistan is that people named in those documents have a reasonable belief that they are going to get killed, or — actually the way it works with the Taliban is, if they can’t find you, they’ll take your brother instead.”

Taliban Study WikiLeaks to Hunt Informants - NYTimes.com
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Beautiful....Thanks Jullian!


j-mac
 
j-mac said:
How do you know that for a fact? how can you be so positive that situations won't arise due to these leaks?

j-mac
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Has it ever been reported that anyone has been killed or maimed due to the past dumps? No. Is it possible that it may happen this time around yes, but I base it on what has happened, not what I am afraid will happen.
 
Mr. Invisible said:
Has it ever been reported that anyone has been killed or maimed due to the past dumps? No. Is it possible that it may happen this time around yes, but I base it on what has happened, not what I am afraid will happen.
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Oh I see, so if the MSM doesn't report it, it doesn't happen....I see.


j-mac
 
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