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Thread: [WikiLeak] Europe, Israel, Arabs urged US for action on Iran

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    Re: [WikiLeak] Europe, Israel, Arabs urged US for action on Iran

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Abdication or isolation is not a policy I endorse. I do not mean we cannot act upon the world stage. However, I would say that they way we currently act upon said stage is too aggressive. Every time someone brings into question the aggressive, interventionist policies we have sought and still seek the first response is "well isolationism doesn't work". It's time to end that tired mantra of intellectual dishonesty and deflect. Many who would call for the reduction in our interventionist policies are not saying that we should totally isolate.

    But there needs to be understanding of what is proper action by the US government, what has been afforded to the government as proper tools, and what has been granted to the government by the People through the Constitution. That's the important part. We are not the World's Police. Nor should we act like it. That's to demand that every American pay for the defense of the world, but that's not our responsibility and it's not our problem. As for oil, HA! We can buy oil from whomever owns the land at the time. Sure, we want to monkey around and make it all nice and neat so that a "friendly" government is in charge. But our monkeying around in that playground for decades has not produced anything which in the end was worth the costs and components. People will always sell to us. And if this oil thing is such a concern, then perhaps it really is time we significantly invested in research and development into alternative energies means which could lessen our dependency on foreign oil. Then we don't even have to entertain Saudi Arabia. Screw those authoritative, theocratic jerks anyway.

    It's high time the world learns to handle it's own affairs. Quit coming to us, I ain't interested in the crazy y'all are selling. We got our own problems and we should invest into solving those. Not the worries of some theocratic dictatorship in middle of a desert.
    For once I'm going to agree with you for the most part. What Don says is true if we continue the course, but what you said rings true given the foreign policy we SHOULD have. Unfortunately, we can't change gears that quickly, therefore it would have to be done in phases over several presidencial terms. The left needs to back off of their opposition to oil refinery construction and nuclear power construction. R&D should continue on energy alternatives as much as the market can bear. Nevertheless we'll have to continue the Carter Doctrine for the time being until we are more self-sufficent. If we doubled our refining capacity we could likely become a net exporter of refined petroleum products. Current laws will have to change to encourage businesses in these areas, and the left will need to accept the above if it wants to achieves its environmental goals. The left cannot continue demanding unmarketable change to achieves its objectives.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

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    Re: [WikiLeak] Europe, Israel, Arabs urged US for action on Iran

    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    For now, I suggest working to replace the relatively mild sanctions currently in place with truly crippling ones and making the Iran issue the central focus of the nation's Mideast diplomatic efforts given the risks/implications involved. The big stakes all lie with Iran. Iran has the ability to dramatically alter the region's balance of power. Such a shift would require expending political capital and some degree of quid pro quo arrangements. At the same time, the U.S. should be drawing up and rigorously testing a military plan (to be pursued only if needed) and developing a credible deterrence regime.
    China will prevent the UNSC from imposing harsh sanctions against Iran. So that's not an answer.

    America doesn't have the ability to contain Iran. The American peoples are no longer capable of waging generational long twilight struggles.

    Time to come home.

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    Re: [WikiLeak] Europe, Israel, Arabs urged US for action on Iran

    Quote Originally Posted by Albert Di Salvo View Post
    China will prevent the UNSC from imposing harsh sanctions against Iran. So that's not an answer.
    That's why there needs to be a quid pro quo. The U.S. will have to accommodate China's need for energy, even sacrificing some of its own use of oil so that China has sufficient access during any cut-off of Iran's ability to sell oil on the world market. To date, the U.S. seems to be riding largely idealistic assumptions that every country, including China, has a largely similar vested interest in denying Iran the capacity to develop nuclear weapons. That assumption is incorrect. Until China's needs are addressed, China understandably cannot be expected to sign onto the type of sanctions that would hurt it far more than they would hurt various other countries.

    America doesn't have the ability to contain Iran.
    By itself, the U.S. cannot "contain" Iran. Working on a multilateral basis with the region's other powers, the U.S. would be in a stronger position to reduce the risk of Iran's attaining a nuclear weapons capability or, failing that, establishing a sufficient deterrence regime to prevent Iran from using such a capability to undermine the region's balance of power.

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    Re: [WikiLeak] Europe, Israel, Arabs urged US for action on Iran

    "That's why there needs to be a quid pro quo. The U.S. will have to accommodate China's need for energy, even sacrificing some of its own use of oil so that China has sufficient access during any cut-off of Iran's ability to sell oil on the world market. To date, the U.S. seems to be riding largely idealistic assumptions that every country, including China, has a largely similar vested interest in denying Iran the capacity to develop nuclear weapons. That assumption is incorrect. Until China's needs are addressed, China understandably cannot be expected to sign onto the type of sanctions that would hurt it far more than they would hurt various other countries."

    You may be right. However, imo, the Chinese will never cooperate voluntarily in terminating DPRK production of nuclear weapons, and proliferation of nuclear weapons and ballistic missile technology. China doesn't feel that the current international system is legitimate. China believes it can game the international legal, political and economic systems because no one has stopped them. They have paid no price. The Chinese are happy to see America expend it's energy in futile causes.

    The only way to get China to do what America wants is to threaten Chinese self-interest in the exact same way they have done to America. There are ways to do this which are really low cost if America is willing to endure unhappy talk from the Chinese.

    Change the nature of reality for the Chinese. Since the Chinese have no problem with nuclear proliferation they should have no problem with Vietnam, Japan, South Korea and Taiwan becoming nuclear weapons states. We live in interesting times.

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    Re: [WikiLeak] Europe, Israel, Arabs urged US for action on Iran

    "By itself, the U.S. cannot "contain" Iran. Working on a multilateral basis with the region's other powers, the U.S. would be in a stronger position to reduce the risk of Iran's attaining a nuclear weapons capability or, failing that, establishing a sufficient deterrence regime to prevent Iran from using such a capability to undermine the region's balance of power."

    This generation of Americans is not capable of punching its way out of a paper bag. It is best if such people avoid conflict.

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    Re: [WikiLeak] Europe, Israel, Arabs urged US for action on Iran

    Quote Originally Posted by Erod View Post
    The leaks also showed that the Saudis are funding al-Quaeda. Perhaps we should bomb them both?
    Many people knew this information before the leak... but no I don't think we should bomb either country. We wouldn't have to.
    Vote John Schnatter (Papa John) 2012!

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