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Thread: [WikiLeak] Europe, Israel, Arabs urged US for action on Iran

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    Re: [WikiLeak] Europe, Israel, Arabs urged US for action on Iran

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Sounds like their problem. Should have thought of that one before relying on a foreign power's military for protection. I mean why do we have to spend so much of our money on our military so that we can then go protect the world so that they do not have to spend so much of their money on their protection? Less we're getting paid, I see no reason to help out.
    Saudi Arabia spends a lot of money on its military. But it does not enjoy gettings its hands dirty. If they were attacked I am sure they could defend themselves.

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    Re: [WikiLeak] Europe, Israel, Arabs urged US for action on Iran

    Quote Originally Posted by Gray_Fox_86 View Post
    Saudi Arabia spends a lot of money on its military. But it does not enjoy gettings its hands dirty. If they were attacked I am sure they could defend themselves.
    Then there's no problem and we don't have to get involved.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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    Re: [WikiLeak] Europe, Israel, Arabs urged US for action on Iran

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Then there's no problem and we don't have to get involved.
    Agreed. But the problem is that there are too many meatheads in the military who would like to get involved and then there are the blue bloods who cannot help but exploite that.

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    Re: [WikiLeak] Europe, Israel, Arabs urged US for action on Iran

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Sounds like their problem. Should have thought of that one before relying on a foreign power's military for protection. I mean why do we have to spend so much of our money on our military so that we can then go protect the world so that they do not have to spend so much of their money on their protection? Less we're getting paid, I see no reason to help out.
    The U.S. has strategic allies and interests in the region e.g., access to oil. Abdication or isolation is not a practical policy. Having said that, military strikes are not necessarily the best way to address the problem. Even if the U.S. does not pursue, much less succeed in implementing crippling sanctions on Iran, the U.S. can sell arms to help maintain the region's balance of power and construct an effective deterrence regime were Iran to develop a nuclear waeapons capability.

    The problem, to date, is that the U.S. approach has been muddled. Sanctions fall far short of those that would be necessary to impact Iran's strategic petroleum sectors. Even total financial sector sanctions fall far short given that Iran's financial sector is not globally-connected. In addition, there is no evidence, to date--even post-Wikileaks disclosures--that the U.S. has even discussed the outlines of a deterrence approach. Given a combination of factors ranging from past flaws in U.S. military planning to the risks associated with Iranian retaliation, Saudi Arabia has little reason for a great deal of confidence in the viability of a U.S. military approach. Hence, the new Saudi effort aimed at accommodation with Iran is underway. Whether that approach ultimately safeguards Saudi Arabia's vital interests remains to be seen and real risks are involved.

    However, even if Saudi Arabia safeguards its own vital interests, that approach may not safeguard vital U.S. interests/strategic allies. Arguably, Iran could remove Saudi Arabia from the equation, and that would complicate efforts by the U.S. to protect its own vital regional interests/strategic allies who have not reached an accommodation with Iran. The balance of power issue would still remain and that has long-term risks for the U.S.

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    Re: [WikiLeak] Europe, Israel, Arabs urged US for action on Iran

    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    The U.S. has strategic allies and interests in the region e.g., access to oil. Abdication or isolation is not a practical policy. Having said that, military strikes are not necessarily the best way to address the problem. Even if the U.S. does not pursue, much less succeed in implementing crippling sanctions on Iran, the U.S. can sell arms to help maintain the region's balance of power and construct an effective deterrence regime were Iran to develop a nuclear waeapons capability.

    The problem, to date, is that the U.S. approach has been muddled. Sanctions fall far short of those that would be necessary to impact Iran's strategic petroleum sectors. Even total financial sector sanctions fall far short given that Iran's financial sector is not globally-connected. In addition, there is no evidence, to date--even post-Wikileaks disclosures--that the U.S. has even discussed the outlines of a deterrence approach. Given a combination of factors ranging from past flaws in U.S. military planning to the risks associated with Iranian retaliation, Saudi Arabia has little reason for a great deal of confidence in the viability of a U.S. military approach. Hence, the new Saudi effort aimed at accommodation with Iran is underway. Whether that approach ultimately safeguards Saudi Arabia's vital interests remains to be seen and real risks are involved.

    However, even if Saudi Arabia safeguards its own vital interests, that approach may not safeguard vital U.S. interests/strategic allies. Arguably, Iran could remove Saudi Arabia from the equation, and that would complicate efforts by the U.S. to protect its own vital regional interests/strategic allies who have not reached an accommodation with Iran. The balance of power issue would still remain and that has long-term risks for the U.S.
    So what do you suggest?

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    Re: [WikiLeak] Europe, Israel, Arabs urged US for action on Iran

    Quote Originally Posted by Gray_Fox_86 View Post
    So what do you suggest?
    For now, I suggest working to replace the relatively mild sanctions currently in place with truly crippling ones and making the Iran issue the central focus of the nation's Mideast diplomatic efforts given the risks/implications involved. The big stakes all lie with Iran. Iran has the ability to dramatically alter the region's balance of power. Such a shift would require expending political capital and some degree of quid pro quo arrangements. At the same time, the U.S. should be drawing up and rigorously testing a military plan (to be pursued only if needed) and developing a credible deterrence regime.

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    Re: [WikiLeak] Europe, Israel, Arabs urged US for action on Iran

    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    The U.S. has strategic allies and interests in the region e.g., access to oil. Abdication or isolation is not a practical policy. Having said that, military strikes are not necessarily the best way to address the problem. Even if the U.S. does not pursue, much less succeed in implementing crippling sanctions on Iran, the U.S. can sell arms to help maintain the region's balance of power and construct an effective deterrence regime were Iran to develop a nuclear waeapons capability.

    The problem, to date, is that the U.S. approach has been muddled. Sanctions fall far short of those that would be necessary to impact Iran's strategic petroleum sectors. Even total financial sector sanctions fall far short given that Iran's financial sector is not globally-connected. In addition, there is no evidence, to date--even post-Wikileaks disclosures--that the U.S. has even discussed the outlines of a deterrence approach. Given a combination of factors ranging from past flaws in U.S. military planning to the risks associated with Iranian retaliation, Saudi Arabia has little reason for a great deal of confidence in the viability of a U.S. military approach. Hence, the new Saudi effort aimed at accommodation with Iran is underway. Whether that approach ultimately safeguards Saudi Arabia's vital interests remains to be seen and real risks are involved.

    However, even if Saudi Arabia safeguards its own vital interests, that approach may not safeguard vital U.S. interests/strategic allies. Arguably, Iran could remove Saudi Arabia from the equation, and that would complicate efforts by the U.S. to protect its own vital regional interests/strategic allies who have not reached an accommodation with Iran. The balance of power issue would still remain and that has long-term risks for the U.S.
    Abdication or isolation is not a policy I endorse. I do not mean we cannot act upon the world stage. However, I would say that they way we currently act upon said stage is too aggressive. Every time someone brings into question the aggressive, interventionist policies we have sought and still seek the first response is "well isolationism doesn't work". It's time to end that tired mantra of intellectual dishonesty and deflect. Many who would call for the reduction in our interventionist policies are not saying that we should totally isolate.

    But there needs to be understanding of what is proper action by the US government, what has been afforded to the government as proper tools, and what has been granted to the government by the People through the Constitution. That's the important part. We are not the World's Police. Nor should we act like it. That's to demand that every American pay for the defense of the world, but that's not our responsibility and it's not our problem. As for oil, HA! We can buy oil from whomever owns the land at the time. Sure, we want to monkey around and make it all nice and neat so that a "friendly" government is in charge. But our monkeying around in that playground for decades has not produced anything which in the end was worth the costs and components. People will always sell to us. And if this oil thing is such a concern, then perhaps it really is time we significantly invested in research and development into alternative energies means which could lessen our dependency on foreign oil. Then we don't even have to entertain Saudi Arabia. Screw those authoritative, theocratic jerks anyway.

    It's high time the world learns to handle it's own affairs. Quit coming to us, I ain't interested in the crazy y'all are selling. We got our own problems and we should invest into solving those. Not the worries of some theocratic dictatorship in middle of a desert.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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    Re: [WikiLeak] Europe, Israel, Arabs urged US for action on Iran

    Apparently Bush wasn't the warmonger the left thought he was.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

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    Re: [WikiLeak] Europe, Israel, Arabs urged US for action on Iran

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    Apparently Bush wasn't the warmonger the left thought he was.
    I never thought Bush was a warmonger. I just think that he's an idiot who suffers too greatly from delusions of grandeur.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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    Re: [WikiLeak] Europe, Israel, Arabs urged US for action on Iran

    Quote Originally Posted by kaya'08 View Post
    Saudi Arabia’s King Abdullah bin Abd al-Aziz has “repeatedly” urged his U.S. allies to take military action against Tehran’s nuclear program and urged them to “cut off the head of the snake.”

    Europe, Israel, Arabs urged action on Iran - Hurriyet Daily News and Economic Review
    sooo..... we really are that weak.

    great.

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