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Thread: Oregon Teen Arrested in Plot to Bomb Holiday Event

  1. #61
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    Re: Oregon Teen Arrested in Plot to Bomb Holiday Event

    Quote Originally Posted by pbrauer View Post
    As long as we occupy Muslim countries and kill innocent people your going to get people like this kid. You would do the same thing if the shoe ere on the other foot.
    Unfortunately, the history of this leaves you standing alone. Neither Iraq nor Afghanistan were occupied prior to 9/11. Saudi Arabia didn't have a base in it prior to Saddam Hussein's irrational invasion into Kuwait. And hatred towards the U.S. was preached two decades prior to supporting Israel. You see, prior to the Suez War (1967) it was the French that supportd Israel with arms and before them it was the Soviets. In fact, it was the U.S. that jjumped intothis war and backed Israel, the French, and theBritish away from Egypt. Another fact is that the loudest voices to create Israel in 1947 was the British and the Russians - not the U.S. Yet, that didn't stop Sayyid Qutb from writing about the evils of American culture and designating us as the enemy of Islam in the 1950s. His writings are held dear to the Muslim Brotherhood and virtually every Sunni terrorists (Al-Queda being one organization) are members. Anything after Sayyid Qutb has been mere excuse.

    You are out of your league with this, because you immediately default to using their excuses to explain this very complex issue. Did you know that Bin Laden used our UN mission with Iraq to excuse murdering Americans on 9/11? His words were the "starving children of Iraq." Of course, he didn't care about the mutilated and slaughtered non-Arab Muslim and Christian children of Sudan when he was a guest of Bashir's, did he? And did you also know that we can trace Sayyid Qutb's legacy directly to Bin Laden? Every radical organization in the Middle East has an excuse and often they contradict with their own behaviors. Did you know that Al-Queda has murdered far more of their fellow Muslims than Americans? 3,000 Americans dead on 9/11 was a drop in the bucket when considering how freely they murder their own across the African and Middle Eastern region. This is why they largely agree that hating America is the Islamic thing to do, but differ on why. Most of their excuses are exaggerated and embellished because they really only want to usurp their hated established governments and turn back the clock so that their God will smile upon them once again. Failure in the Middle East makes no sense to them because they will notlook at their own culture. The narcotic of blame is too delicious.

    You see, we deal with governments. Not their religious radicals who design their hatreds around any event they can. Not their angered masses who hate their secular governments and demand Sharia be the law of the land. Not their wind bags who preach a puritan vision of Islam as if capturing past glory (Rashidun era) is possible in the 21st century. And certainly not their extremist organizations who can't even get their stories straight on why they hate us. The entire world is full of embasies military bases and foriegn visitors. The vermin of the Middle East don't get to pretend that their region has to be placed behind a shatter proof glass of isolation. Hating us for our culture and establishing us as ther God's enemy on earth (Sayyid Qutb..remember?) doesn't make sense to you, does it? It's irrational and senseless. So they use any practical excuse they can to convince you that they have legitimacy in their hatreds. The fact is that we had done very little to the Middle East prior to 9/11. The Soviets were horrible back stabbers and abusers of Muslims and Europeans created their Frankenstein's monster nations and established the elite their people hate. It was theBritish that created the mess between Palestinians and Jews long before America emerged from isolation. Yet...we are the enemy of Allah? You can't explain it because you need it to be as simple as a base in Saudi Arabia, which occurred 40 years after being designated as their enemy.



    And by the way, we aren't occupying Somalia. So maybe you can at least think this through enough to see a better truth.
    Last edited by MSgt; 11-28-10 at 12:52 PM.

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    Re: Oregon Teen Arrested in Plot to Bomb Holiday Event

    Quote Originally Posted by MSgt View Post
    bury their heads in the Whoopie Goldberg hole......
    Most disturbing thought in DP history
    "Loyalty only matters when there's a hundred reasons not to be-" Gen. Mattis

  3. #63
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    Re: Oregon Teen Arrested in Plot to Bomb Holiday Event

    Quote Originally Posted by pbrauer View Post
    As long as we occupy Muslim countries and kill innocent people your going to get people like this kid. You would do the same thing if the shoe ere on the other foot.
    So you are saying that the effect precedes the cause?

    It usually works the other way around.
    "you're better off on Stormfront discussing how evil brown men are taking innocent white flowers." Infinite Chaos

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    Re: Oregon Teen Arrested in Plot to Bomb Holiday Event

    Quote Originally Posted by Gardener View Post
    So you are saying that the effect precedes the cause?

    It usually works the other way around.
    It just amazes me. I understand that people want a simple solution, but I don't understand how they can so easily dismiss the history of this to favor a religious zealot's excuses. These same people would condemn a Christian organization that murders Americans and seeks to damage foriegn nations who are allied to the American government. But an Islamic religious zealot must be respected and given legitimacy to his irrational claims?

    Makes no sense.

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    Re: Oregon Teen Arrested in Plot to Bomb Holiday Event

    Quote Originally Posted by MSgt View Post
    It just amazes me. I understand that people want a simple solution, but I don't understand how they can so easily dismiss the history of this to favor a religious zealot's excuses. These same people would condemn a Christian organization that murders Americans and seeks to damage foriegn nations who are allied to the American government. But an Islamic religious zealot must be respected and given legitimacy to his irrational claims?

    Makes no sense.
    It makes no sense to me, either, Gunny -- oops, old habit. I don't know what it is, but saying "it makes no sense to me, Master" just gets my mind travelling at such speed, I end up recreating so many old episodes of "Kung Fu" that I would never get to an actual point. Congrats are in order, if I haven't alreay offered such, though.

    Anyway, what I was going to say is that in many cases it is talking points being repeated rather rational analysis that results in this inversion of cause and effect, as the talking points that originate in the rhetorec of Islamists are dressed up and repeated through various influential mouthpieces, often times in western academia, are filtered through western perceptions and then spread through contact. I don't see it as a conscious process, really, but just something more in terms of happens when an idea becomes attached to a political identity.
    "you're better off on Stormfront discussing how evil brown men are taking innocent white flowers." Infinite Chaos

  6. #66
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    Re: Oregon Teen Arrested in Plot to Bomb Holiday Event

    Quote Originally Posted by pbrauer View Post
    As long as we occupy Muslim countries and kill innocent people your going to get people like this kid. You would do the same thing if the shoe ere on the other foot.
    I see...so it IS our fault. We caused it.

    Have any CLUE what life is like in Somalia before or after our presence their?

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    Re: Oregon Teen Arrested in Plot to Bomb Holiday Event

    Quote Originally Posted by pbrauer View Post
    As long as we occupy Muslim countries and kill innocent people your going to get people like this kid. You would do the same thing if the shoe ere on the other foot.
    So what would you have done about Afghanistan after 9/11?

    Given that you're someone who often talks about human rights, I'm sure you were outraged about the Taliban even before 9/11.
    People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

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    Re: Oregon Teen Arrested in Plot to Bomb Holiday Event

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    I see...so it IS our fault. We caused it.

    Have any CLUE what life is like in Somalia before or after our presence their?
    No he's confused and just throwing out the sophomoric tag line to explain it away. Our UN humanitarian mission in Somalia lasted a couple years and ended in 1993. In the mean time Somali fishermen have resorted to piracy due to nations in Europe and China dumping toxic waste in their seas. Of course, some actually blame us leading tothe conclusion that their reasons to hate are exaggerated and ignorant.

    Like wise, the tag line that "we deserve what relgious zealots do because we occupy Muslim lands" is merely ignorance. Prior to 9/11 and the Gulf War, we occupied ****, yet was the target of their relgious rage. Always they will find an excuse for Westerners to believe in.

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    Re: Oregon Teen Arrested in Plot to Bomb Holiday Event

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    So what would you have done about Afghanistan after 9/11?
    He doesn't know what he is talking about. Prior to our retaliation to 9/11, we were hated for our occupation of Muslim lands in regards to Saudi Arabia (by invite). Before this we were hated for our support for Israel. Before this (1967) were hated for Sayyid Qutb's writings. All excuses and very exaggerated in order to explain away their own civilization's failures.

    Along the way, it has been America that has constantly tried to find a way to bring peace to palestinians and Israelis. It has been us that saved Muslims in Kuwait and in Bosnia. It has beenus that spared the entire Muslim region from the fate that hundreds of thousands of Muslims in the Caucusus had suffered under the Soviet Union. And I might go ahead and mention that along the way it has been Muslims that have denied them civil rights, managed to slaughter far more of their fellow Muslim that any Westerner, and encouraged nothing but hatred and violence towards others to satisfy religious bewilderment. So much for the U.S. being their problem.
    Last edited by MSgt; 11-28-10 at 03:57 PM.

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