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Thread: Oregon Teen Arrested in Plot to Bomb Holiday Event

  1. #51
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    Re: Oregon Teen Arrested in Plot to Bomb Holiday Event

    Quote Originally Posted by MSgt View Post
    This is very good. Now what?

    It's very easy to state that they did this to themselves and close the book. Before 9/11 we could simply dismiss their social issues. But now? Things have become a little more international. There continued path will produce more 9/11s. And with nukes being the weapon of choice in the future? How many Americans have to die before people like you think more than the sophomorics of this issue?
    How many American have to die, before our leadership figures out that handling things with kid gloves and trying to win the good sportsmanship award isn't producing an significant results. You know better than I do, that such a strategy is seen as a sign of weakness, in that part of the world. They don't have cable and don't pick up the NYT in their driveway, every morning. Not to mention, that building schools for them and providing them with infrastructure is seen as condescending.

    The enemy we find ourselves engaged with knows only one thing: strength through violence. I say we fight the war on his terms.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Oregon Teen Arrested in Plot to Bomb Holiday Event

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    How many American have to die, before our leadership figures out that handling things with kid gloves and trying to win the good sportsmanship award isn't producing an significant results.
    Well, that's a whole nother matter. Most of Washington don't even know what this enemy is.

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    The enemy we find ourselves engaged with knows only one thing: strength through violence. I say we fight the war on his terms.
    Spoken like a military man. This is fine, but we have to acknowledge that without dealing with this failing civilization, we will simply involve ourselves in a never ending killing campaign of natural extremists. It is far easier for any elected politician to spend his short term in office to pretend that peace is one dead extremist away. In the end, our children will be fighting this same fight, because this civilization will continue to linger in failure.

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  3. #53
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    Re: Oregon Teen Arrested in Plot to Bomb Holiday Event

    Quote Originally Posted by MSgt View Post
    Well, that's a whole nother matter. Most of Washington don't even know what this enemy is.
    That's my point.



    Spoken like a military man. This is fine, but we have to acknowledge that without dealing with this failing civilization, we will simply involve ourselves in a never ending killing campaign of natural extremists. It is far easier for any elected politician to spend his short term in office to pretend that peace is one dead extremist away. In the end, our children will be fighting this same fight, because this civilization will continue to linger in failure.
    Again, I agree. However, this is a multi-step process. The first step, is to destroy the enemy's ability to operate; which means we have to destroy his ability to exploit the civilian population. As long as he is able to do so, completely unchecked--which is the current situation--then we're only chasing our tails.

    It's like when I was a kid and an arsonist drove around the woods, starting fires in random places. The local fire department and sheriff's department spent all their time chasing the fires, rather than chasing the arsonist.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

  4. #54
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    Re: Oregon Teen Arrested in Plot to Bomb Holiday Event

    Quote Originally Posted by samsmart View Post
    That may be true. However, killing them all won't fix anything either.
    The underwear bomber was quite wealthy and what do we know about this 19 yr old, Mohamed Osman Mohamud? Was he poor?
    Do people who grow up poor normally want to go out and bomb as many Americans as possible?
    Catawa is my favorite bleeding heart liberal.
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    Re: Oregon Teen Arrested in Plot to Bomb Holiday Event

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Originally Posted by samsmart
    But killing more extremist Muslims is only curing the symptoms. The reason why extremist Muslims are militant is because many of them are poor and uneducated and have little way to improve their lot in life. So if you want to cure the disease, the best thing to do is to help Muslim areas promote an economic base and provide modern education rather than let them be ingrained by zealous religious leaders to be militant extremists.

    That's no ****in' excuse! Gimme a break!!!!!! !!!!
    I quite agree...its not an excuse and I dont think Samsmart was making an excuse. It IS however true. Having spent several years in the middle east (and I understand you have some time there as well) its EASY to see the disparity between the different groups. Those with nothing to lose are targeted by the extremists. Thats not unique to the middle east or to this time. Its always been the way hate and fear mongers have operated...expolit those with nothing to lose by creating a common enemy and offering them something more. The value is not to find excuse, justification, or rationalization...it is to understand them...to help combat them, and also to find realistic solutions.

    Im going to be shocked if we find that this kid came from a healthy home of well adjusted parents and was accepted into the community. My guess is he probably came here from Somalia with anger, never acclimated, never fit into a society, and from an early age began looking at or for people to lash out at. In that sense he is no different than a fairly significant number of American born teens.

    I think the Obama admin deserves credit for carrying on the Bush policies and fighting domestic terrorism. It should be noted that they discovered this kid by monitoring his email to contacts in Somalia...so...

  6. #56
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    Re: Oregon Teen Arrested in Plot to Bomb Holiday Event

    Quote Originally Posted by Barbbtx View Post
    The underwear bomber was quite wealthy and what do we know about this 19 yr old, Mohamed Osman Mohamud? Was he poor?
    Do people who grow up poor normally want to go out and bomb as many Americans as possible?
    No. However, most Islamic suicide bombers are poor, uneducated, without opportunity, and without hope. They are generally dissapointed with this life and eager to join the next where they are to be rewarded for going out in the service of God. There are two types of terrorists. This kid is an "Apocalyptic terrrorists." He does not desire to change a government or negotiate incentives. His goal is to simply punish or to be a tool for god in order to hurry up armegeddon so that all enemies of his faith can be burned.

    History has seen these people before. During the religious wars in the Christian faith on the continent of Europe the Catholics had Phillip II and the Protestants had Thomas Munzter. America's John Brown was another type of Apocalyptic terrorist who's only desire really was to punish in the nameof God.

    This kid's background involves Somalia, which is a haven for radical Islamists. However, the poor or uneducated immigrant usually cannot afford to move family across the ocean. It is for this reason they usually head into Europe and this is why Europehassuch problems with radical (and extremist) Muslims. I would not be suprised if he attended private school in the U.S. and was taught all about the enemies of his faith by his Islamic teachers. His age suggests that he didn't have a chance and that our enemies sunk their teeth in before he knew it. I'd like to know more about him.



    * Ralph Peters (former Army intel officer) wrote an essay for the Center For Emerging Threats and Opportunities. The essay is called "WHEN DEVILS WALK THE EARTH." It lays out the mentality and roots of terrorism and is a very good read.

    * Another great read is "Terror in the Mind of God: The Global Rise of Religious Violence" by Mark Juergensmeyer. The author let's the Apocalyptic terrorist off the hook a little, but it is still a very informative read.

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    Re: Oregon Teen Arrested in Plot to Bomb Holiday Event

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    Im going to be shocked if we find that this kid came from a healthy home of well adjusted parents and was accepted into the community. My guess is he probably came here from Somalia with anger, never acclimated, never fit into a society, and from an early age began looking at or for people to lash out at. In that sense he is no different than a fairly significant number of American born teens.
    A healthy home and an accepting community wouldn't tell us much. Serial Killers are often quiet and accepted in their communities. And plenty of Islamist terrorists across Europe are second and third generation immigrants from parents who have nothing to do with radical groups. A convertor often feels that he has to prove his allegiance to Islam (clearly not this kid). But I'd be curious about his situation once he got here. In a public school setting he could have gotten fed up with Muslim jokes or ridicules and used it to legitimize his former radical environment. In a private school setting he could have had a handy dandy Islamic role model that built on his radical background in Somalia.

    Of course, we really don't know anything about this kid yet.

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    Re: Oregon Teen Arrested in Plot to Bomb Holiday Event

    Quote Originally Posted by MSgt View Post
    A healthy home and an accepting community wouldn't tell us much. Serial Killers are often quiet and accepted in their communities. And plenty of Islamist terrorists across Europe are second and third generation immigrants from parents who have nothing to do with radical groups. A convertor often feels that he has to prove his allegiance to Islam (clearly not this kid). But I'd be curious about his situation once he got here. In a public school setting he could have gotten fed up with Muslim jokes or ridicules and used it to legitimize his former radical environment. In a private school setting he could have had a handy dandy Islamic role model that built on his radical background in Somalia.

    Of course, we really don't know anything about this kid yet.
    Id challenge the notion that serial killers often come from healthy homes (a relative term) and communities. But I agree completely that we dont know much about this kid and until we do everything is speculation. I also agree with Apdst...NO excuses...no justification...but thats not what the understanding process is for.

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    Re: Oregon Teen Arrested in Plot to Bomb Holiday Event

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    Id challenge the notion that serial killers often come from healthy homes (a relative term) and communities. But I agree completely that we dont know much about this kid and until we do everything is speculation. I also agree with Apdst...NO excuses...no justification...but thats not what the understanding process is for.
    I would have thought by now the media vultures would have released something about his life in the U.S. Of course, if he did attend a Muslim school, the authorities have more to investigate.

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    Re: Oregon Teen Arrested in Plot to Bomb Holiday Event

    Quote Originally Posted by Barbbtx View Post
    I think we need a whole new approach but no idea what.This kid said he'd been thinking about it since he was 15. So something made him hate Americans before that.
    As long as we occupy Muslim countries and kill innocent people your going to get people like this kid. You would do the same thing if the shoe ere on the other foot.


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