U.S. nervously awaits next WikiLeaks

[Orion]

CBC News - Canada - U.S. nervously awaits next WikiLeaks

The United States government and its diplomats around the world are nervously awaiting the latest release of WikiLeaks documents, more than two million, expected late Friday or Saturday.

U.S. officials said the documents may contain accounts of compromising conversations with political dissidents and friendly politicians. They also could damage U.S. relations with allies around the world and result in the expulsion of U.S. diplomats from foreign postings.

The U.S. ambassador to Canada, David Jacobson, has phoned Minister of Foreign Affairs Lawrence Cannon to inform him of the matter.

.....

This time WikiLeaks said the report will be on Afghanistan, Russia and other former Soviet republics, suggesting huge embarrassments, as well as classified U.S. discussions revealing corruption allegations against foreign government leaders. That's what has the U.S. extremely worried.

While no one knows what exactly the documents may reveal, speculation is that another issue that may be exposed is the pressure the U.S. put on other countries to repatriate Guantanamo Bay detainees, including Toronto-born Omar Khadr.

This is big news in the international relations department and could have widespread ramifications throughout the entire world. On the other hand, if some seedy or unsavoury business has gone down, I support the public knowing about it. Keeping our political leaders accountable is important to democracy, especially now when so many people have had cynical suspicions about the motives of their governments.

The dirty laundry should be aired so that we can clean house.

 

[Heavy Duty]

CBC News - Canada - U.S. nervously awaits next WikiLeaks



This is big news in the international relations department and could have widespread ramifications throughout the entire world. On the other hand, if some seedy or unsavoury business has gone down, I support the public knowing about it. Keeping our political leaders accountable is important to democracy, especially now when so many people have had cynical suspicions about the motives of their governments.

The dirty laundry should be aired so that we can clean house.

Just remember neighbor to the North, when America is weaken you are at risk yourself without our blanket of protection. Without America, whom will Canada lean on? Yourselves.......................LOL

 

[Laila]

No doubt there will probably be high levels of corruption.
I await the release with anticipation.

 

[MKULTRABOY]

Just remember neighbor to the North, when America is weaken you are at risk yourself without our blanket of protection. Without America, whom will Canada lean on? Yourselves.......................LOL

What are we going to do with you, can't take you anywhere, jeeze. Defend canada from..... polar bears? :shrug:

 

[TurtleDude]

I wonder if an interesting discussion would be should the US government put an end to wikileaks out of national security?

 

[The Mark]

What are we going to do with you, can't take you anywhere, jeeze. Defend canada from..... polar bears? :shrug:

Invading space Nazies from the (former) planet Pluto.

Edit: They are mad cause' we dissed their homeworld.

 

[Kal'Stang]

I wonder if an interesting discussion would be should the US government put an end to wikileaks out of national security?

No. I admit that this is actually the first time that I have heard of wikileaks but if what I have read of them over the past hour is true then I fully support them. They seem to be intent on protecting those that may come to physical harm in both the war efforts and from prosecution so I have no problem with them.

 

[apdst]

There wasn't anything of any real shock released the last time. I'm starting to wonder if the U.S. government isn't just feeding this guy a buncha crap, to keep him occupied.

 

[MKULTRABOY]

There wasn't anything of any real shock released the last time. I'm starting to wonder if the U.S. government isn't just feeding this guy a buncha crap, to keep him occupied.

Sometimes I question reality itself.

 

[TurtleDude]

No. I admit that this is actually the first time that I have heard of wikileaks but if what I have read of them over the past hour is true then I fully support them. They seem to be intent on protecting those that may come to physical harm in both the war efforts and from prosecution so I have no problem with them.

so if some disgruntled member of the military or government leaked them classified information that was then published causing some of our people to get killed what would you think? I wouldn't lose too much sleep if someone who lost a brother or son because of that took the guy out

 

[MKULTRABOY]

If they were more accountable there'd be nothing to leak. Problem solved at the root.

 

[TurtleDude]

If they were more accountable there'd be nothing to leak. Problem solved at the root.

not true, there are legitimate types of information to keep secret

 

[Demon of Light]

Just remember neighbor to the North, when America is weaken you are at risk yourself without our blanket of protection. Without America, whom will Canada lean on? Yourselves.......................LOL

I am pretty sure this will not pose any threat to our defense budget. In fact, if this impairs our relations with countries overseas and causes us to pull back that would actually be in Canada's national security interests.

I wonder if an interesting discussion would be should the US government put an end to wikileaks out of national security?

Interestingly Wikileaks leaked a CIA document on what the CIA could do to bring down Wikileaks and this was before any of the recent leaks.

so if some disgruntled member of the military or government leaked them classified information that was then published causing some of our people to get killed what would you think? I wouldn't lose too much sleep if someone who lost a brother or son because of that took the guy out

I think the chances of people getting killed in this case and the previous cases is exceedingly low, unless someone kills a person due to outrage over the revelations.

 

[MKULTRABOY]

Yes... how this excuses their misconduct and scandal for what does get leaked is beyond me.

 

[Kal'Stang]

No. I admit that this is actually the first time that I have heard of wikileaks but if what I have read of them over the past hour is true then I fully support them. They seem to be intent on protecting those that may come to physical harm in both the war efforts and from prosecution so I have no problem with them.

so if some disgruntled member of the military or government leaked them classified information that was then published causing some of our people to get killed what would you think? I wouldn't lose too much sleep if someone who lost a brother or son because of that took the guy out

Perhaps you didn't read the part that I wrote that I now bold to bring to your attention? Since they seem intent on it I see no reason to worry about it. And if it does happen...well to be brutally honest...collateral damage. So long as it doesn't become something that happens regularly I'm willing to let it go.

I'm tired of our government hiding anything and everything because they want to line their pockets. If this is what it takes to start making them honest, then so be it.

I understand that there are some things that should be kept out of the public for short periods of time (when it comes to troops and troop movements) or even long term (when it comes to technological advantages for our military). However there is a lot that our government has been doing of late that should have been made available to the public AS they were talking about it. Example: Health care reform should have not had closed doors....AT ALL. Diplomatic talks should also be made available to the general public as we would have to abide by anything that was agreed upon.

And many more things.

 

[RightinNYC]

CBC News - Canada - U.S. nervously awaits next WikiLeaks



This is big news in the international relations department and could have widespread ramifications throughout the entire world. On the other hand, if some seedy or unsavoury business has gone down, I support the public knowing about it. Keeping our political leaders accountable is important to democracy, especially now when so many people have had cynical suspicions about the motives of their governments.

The dirty laundry should be aired so that we can clean house.

No doubt there will probably be high levels of corruption.
I await the release with anticipation.

What a shocker that people who aren't Americans are giddy at the prospect of something that could embarrass America and undermine our security.

 

[Orion]

What a shocker that people who aren't Americans are giddy at the prospect of something that could embarrass America and undermine our security.

Yeah because I really love the idea that defense could be hurt and that people could be put at risk. I just love it when people die!

Enough with the hyperbole already. The thing that put those people at risk in the first place was the corrupt behaviours that Wikileaks will probably reveal. The fact that someone is revealing those behaviours against the will of the U.S. government shouldn't sidestep the value of the information. Sorry you can't see that.

Wikileaks didn't embarrass America. Your own people did that.

 

[RightinNYC]

Yeah because I really love the idea that defense could be hurt and that people could be put at risk. I just love it when people die!

It's much easier for people like you to justify your feelings when you pretend that things like that aren't the natural outgrowth of things like this.

Enough with the hyperbole already. The thing that put those people at risk in the first place was the corrupt behaviours that Wikileaks will probably reveal. The fact that someone is revealing those behaviours against the will of the U.S. government shouldn't sidestep the value of the information. Sorry you can't see that.

That's a pretty naive and ignorant statement.

Believe it or not, every country (including your own perfect paradise) says and does things behind the scenes that they don't want made public. They do this because it's how the world works. Should those words and actions become public, it would have a negative impact on that country's standing in the world and on the way in which other countries are willing to cooperate. To any reasonable person, that would be considered a bad and dangerous thing.

I know it's easy to sit there and tut tut at America for the fact that it operates like every other country on the planet, but try to think these things through before you climb on your high horse and exult in our misfortune.

 

[Fiddytree]

Indeed. Secrecy is a valuable trade of policy-makers. It aided both the Russians and the Americans cool down the Cuban Missile Crisis and come to sensible solutions to ease tensions between the two nations. If word leaked so soon, it would have been a disaster for the US to look like it was giving away turf.

 

[Orion]

It's much easier for people like you to justify your feelings when you pretend that things like that aren't the natural outgrowth of things like this.

And that's what people like you say whenever you try to maintain the pretense that you know how I think and feel about something, even after I have repeatedly told you how I think and feel.

Believe it or not, every country (including your own perfect paradise) says and does things behind the scenes that they don't want made public. They do this because it's how the world works. Should those words and actions become public, it would have a negative impact on that country's standing in the world and on the way in which other countries are willing to cooperate. To any reasonable person, that would be considered a bad and dangerous thing.

So on one hand you say that this is how the world works; on the other hand, you say that we shouldn't know about it because it could be damaging to a country's reputation? Sounds like you think our governments should be able to have their cake and eat it too -- speaking of ignorant and naive. I think if the public had awareness into "how the world works", they would be calling up every politician to have the system changed. The fact that our governments operate parallel but hidden from the public and conduct themselves in corrupt matters that run counter to publicly stated policy should be of grave concern to everyone.

You say it's just the way it works; well, it works that way because we are prevented from knowing about it. Knowledge is power. That is how change happens. If they are doing seedy business behind our backs but with our money and political capitol, then they deserve every bit of exposure they are getting.

I know it's easy to sit there and tut tut at America for the fact that it operates like every other country on the planet, but try to think these things through before you climb on your high horse and exult in our misfortune.

Put aside your pride for a minute and maybe you would see that this is not about anti-Americanism. I am well aware that the Canadian government is and has been involved in a lot of shady business too. We have probably the worst offenders in power right now in Canada. Just because I am pointing out that the U.S. deserves to be exposed, don't think for a minute that that goes only for the U.S. I think any country engaged in acts of corruption that is supposed to be answerable to its people deserves every bit of negative exposure it gets IF it is engaged in such business.

I find it very telling that you have instead decided to shift your concern to people like me or toward blaming Wikileaks themselves, as opposed to looking at the information with an unbiased mind. Do you not care what your government does? If there are diplomatic problems over this or new security concerns, they are the fault of your own government and no one else. All countries may behave the same but all countries who get exposed had it coming.

 

[RightinNYC]

So on one hand you say that this is how the world works; on the other hand, you say that we shouldn't know about it because it could be damaging to a country's reputation?

I'm saying that although most intelligent people are aware that countries do things like this behind the scenes, that doesn't mean that the specifics should be bared to the world.

Everyone knows that everyone poops. Does that mean that you wouldn't have a problem with everyone you know watching you poop? Everyone knows that everyone lies. Does that mean that you wouldn't object to every one of your lies being categorized and exposed to the world?

I think if the public had awareness into "how the world works", they would be calling up every politician to have the system changed. The fact that our governments operate parallel but hidden from the public and conduct themselves in corrupt matters that run counter to publicly stated policy should be of grave concern to everyone.

You say it's just the way it works; well, it works that way because we are prevented from knowing about it. Knowledge is power. That is how change happens. If they are doing seedy business behind our backs but with our money and political capitol, then they deserve every bit of exposure they are getting.

And like I said, most people are already aware of this. It's just how society works. We can't all live in a fantasy world where everything is smiles and handshakes.

Put aside your pride for a minute and maybe you would see that this is not about anti-Americanism. I am well aware that the Canadian government is and has been involved in a lot of shady business too. We have probably the worst offenders in power right now in Canada. Just because I am pointing out that the U.S. deserves to be exposed, don't think for a minute that that goes only for the U.S. I think any country engaged in acts of corruption that is supposed to be answerable to its people deserves every bit of negative exposure it gets IF it is engaged in such business.

I'm sure that you always feel that way. I think it's just more visible when it comes to the US.

I find it very telling that you have instead decided to shift your concern to people like me or toward blaming Wikileaks themselves, as opposed to looking at the information with an unbiased mind. Do you not care what your government does? If there are diplomatic problems over this or new security concerns, they are the fault of your own government and no one else. All countries may behave the same but all countries who get exposed had it coming.

And like I've said repeatedly, I think this is a naive and overly simplistic position.

 

[Orion]

I'm saying that although most intelligent people are aware that countries do things like this behind the scenes, that doesn't mean that the specifics should be bared to the world.

Well you are certainly entitled to your opinion on that, aren't you?

Everyone knows that everyone poops. Does that mean that you wouldn't have a problem with everyone you know watching you poop? Everyone knows that everyone lies. Does that mean that you wouldn't object to every one of your lies being categorized and exposed to the world?

The function of the media is partially to keep government in check. I see nothing wrong with what Wikileaks is doing. Does it create problems for the U.S.? Sure it does... but as someone else in this thread said, that is collateral. If you have dishonest policy then you only put yourself at risk if you are exposed.

And like I said, most people are already aware of this. It's just how society works. We can't all live in a fantasy world where everything is smiles and handshakes.

I don't see anyone here claiming that the world is that way. In fact, I think allowing our governments to remain dishonest and underhanded is achieving the kind of world that is increasingly unsafe and haphazard for future generations.

I'm sure that you always feel that way. I think it's just more visible when it comes to the US.

This is an American forum, I've accepted that for a while now. If I talk about Canada, no one cares; if I don't talk about Canada, people accuse me of being anti-American. I'm not going to bother being a people pleaser. I am happy with what Wikileaks is doing. If you wish you think that that means I'm dancing on America's grave, then be my guest. I really don't care.

And like I've said repeatedly, I think this is a naive and overly simplistic position.

Again, you're entitled.

 

[RightinNYC]

Well you are certainly entitled to your opinion on that, aren't you?

And you're invited to dispute it, if you can.

The function of the media is partially to keep government in check. I see nothing wrong with what Wikileaks is doing. Does it create problems for the U.S.? Sure it does... but as someone else in this thread said, that is collateral. If you have dishonest policy then you only put yourself at risk if you are exposed.

And for the third or fourth time, I think that's exceedingly simplistic.

I don't see anyone here claiming that the world is that way. In fact, I think allowing our governments to remain dishonest and underhanded is achieving the kind of world that is increasingly unsafe and haphazard for future generations.

If you think that anything will ever result in countries (or people) not being dishonest or underhanded, then yes, you are living in a fantasy world.

This is an American forum, I've accepted that for a while now. If I talk about Canada, no one cares; if I don't talk about Canada, people accuse me of being anti-American. I'm not going to bother being a people pleaser. I am happy with what Wikileaks is doing. If you wish you think that that means I'm dancing on America's grave, then be my guest. I really don't care.

Okay!

 

[Orion]

And you're invited to dispute it, if you can.

There's nothing to dispute really. You think the leak is a bad thing, I don't. Our argument has been fairly circular.

And for the third or fourth time, I think that's exceedingly simplistic.

Yet you can't explain why.

If you think that anything will ever result in countries (or people) not being dishonest or underhanded, then yes, you are living in a fantasy world.

No, I'm a realist. I know the world isn't perfect. What does perfect mean anyway? But when it comes to things like war, and terrorism, it's actually a fairly simple matter. If you don't want war, don't start one; if you don't like terrorism, then stop terrorizing other countries with your foreign policy, causing several generations of young people to become jihadis. If you don't like corruption, then STOP contributing to it.

On the other hand, if you really don't care whether or not any of these things exist and you want to engage in them, then just be up front about it. All this talk about how the U.S. is the best, and it stands for all of these virtues... it's a load of ballony. The same goes for all the stated humanitarian objectives of Canada and the western world. We're in it for ourselves, we just go about it in different ways.

My beef is more that they are lying than the actions themselves, and they are using our money to do it, and without our consent.

NYC, I think your main problem is that you have too much pride, and you assume I am just attacking America. I am actually attacking the entire human condition.

 

[RightinNYC]

Yet you can't explain why.

I explained it several times.

Believe it or not, every country (including your own perfect paradise) says and does things behind the scenes that they don't want made public. They do this because it's how the world works. Should those words and actions become public, it would have a negative impact on that country's standing in the world and on the way in which other countries are willing to cooperate. To any reasonable person, that would be considered a bad and dangerous thing.

I'm saying that although most intelligent people are aware that countries do things like this behind the scenes, that doesn't mean that the specifics should be bared to the world.

Everyone knows that everyone poops. Does that mean that you wouldn't have a problem with everyone you know watching you poop? Everyone knows that everyone lies. Does that mean that you wouldn't object to every one of your lies being categorized and exposed to the world?

Don't really know how I can make it any clearer.

No, I'm a realist. I know the world isn't perfect. What does perfect mean anyway? But when it comes to things like war, and terrorism, it's actually a fairly simple matter.

No, no it's not.

If you don't want war, don't start one; if you don't like terrorism, then stop terrorizing other countries with your foreign policy, causing several generations of young people to become jihadis. If you don't like corruption, then STOP contributing to it.

Like I said - incredibly simplistic. If you really believe this, then there's no point in discussing this any further.

NYC, I think your main problem is that you have too much pride, and you assume I am just attacking America. I am actually attacking the entire human condition.

And I'm pointing out that in the real world, we can't all live like you think we should.