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Thread: U.S. nervously awaits next WikiLeaks

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    Re: U.S. nervously awaits next WikiLeaks

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    I seem to live life just fine living by it. If I can do it then surely others can also?
    You live life just fine living by the rule that the government should never lie to you? Well, I live life just fine living by the rule that everyone thinks I'm handsome and charming.
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    Re: U.S. nervously awaits next WikiLeaks

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    Because the leaks will include conversations with both sides where they will be saying things that they would prefer not to be made public.



    Nowhere have I claimed that this would only negatively affect the US. The point is that because the cables are US cables, the US will be involved in all of the cables, while other countries will only be involved in a portion.
    "The media does not yet know precisely what Wikileaks has - in what could be up to three million documents - and it is possible that the state department does not know exactly what the site has either, our correspondent says.

    Newspaper reports indicate the release will include papers suggesting that Turkey helped al-Qaeda militants in Iraq, and that the US helped Iraq-based Kurdish separatists who have been engaged in a long conflict with Turkey.

    The Russian foreign ministry told Interfax news agency that Moscow had not been officially contacted by the US state department over the possible leak of diplomatic correspondence.

    But Russia's Kommersant newspaper said the expected release included discussions between US diplomats and Russian politicians and "unflattering" opinions of some of the latter.

    The release is also thought to include cables concerning Israeli-American relations."

    Doesn't sound like all are simply cables and conversations - if the section on the US upporting Turkey's enemies and accusations that Turkey in response aided Al-Qaeda turn out to be true.

    Anyhow - it's all speculation at this point and Wikileaks are apparently enjoying the embarrassment they are causing the US.

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    Re: U.S. nervously awaits next WikiLeaks

    In my mind, it is a given that there are indeed some things better kept from public knowledge.

    The issue is not one of "full disclosure or full secrecy" - that is far too black and white.

    Some things should, and some should not...But who gets the duty of deciding which things should and should not be public knowledge?

    In some cases, I think there are things which would be better left unclassified.

    In others, declassification or not classifying something enough is a terrible thing.

    On the whole, I would rather some (relatively) inconsequential thing were classified, as opposed to declassifying something which might result in innocent persons dying.

    Blah.

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    Re: U.S. nervously awaits next WikiLeaks

    Quote Originally Posted by Apocalypse View Post
    That specifically is a very ignorant and absurd statement as you have no knowledge at all as to what constitutes as the majority of what the state keeps in secret from the world population, and when you assume that "most of what they keep secret" is this and that you are admitting that you do not need to rely on what you know, on facts you are aware of, for your opinions to be held.
    And it is also ignorant and absurd to think that the government doesn't keep secrets that the public should have known about from the get go. I've already given a couple of examples of such. While you did address one I notice that you did not answer the other. HCR closed doors. I'll get to the other below where you addressed it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Apocalypse View Post
    Abso****inglutely. Secret agreements between countries need to be kept in secret, else enemy entities and nations will be aware of the agreement and will act against it.
    Letting your enemy know of your next move is endangering your side - again, unbelievable, right?
    If your enemy is involved then it is about things that the military needs to be involved in. In which case, yeah sure, keep it secret. But there is no valid reason to keep things like trade agreement talks secret. Or negotiations with your enemy secret.

    Quote Originally Posted by Apocalypse View Post
    So you do not count as a supporter of the Wikileaks organization and its actions since it does leak information that mainly deals with the military and its actions.
    Nevertheless as pointed above the notion that only military related intel are to be kept in secret is almost as absurd; see the example of secret agreements between nations for diplomatic related leaks.
    There is a time limit on when military secrets should be kept secret. I've already listed such things but here they are again. Short term - troop movements. Long term - technological advantages.

    Quote Originally Posted by Apocalypse View Post
    Your most important right is the right to safety and life, and that should be the top priority of the state and the government.
    Thus when letting you know something also means letting the state's enemies know something and thus means a risk of lives for you, the citizens of the state, the state must keep this 'something' in secret else it would be committing a crime against its own civilian population which it exists to protect.
    Give an example and we'll go from there on this one.

    Quote Originally Posted by Apocalypse View Post
    Likewise, when a third party, and not the state itself, is the one to let the civilians and the entire world know of those things that are kept in secret, it is engaging in an equal crime against the citizens of said state and must be held to justice by the state.
    Again, it depends on what is leaked. Since those at wikileaks seem to be intent on protecting those that may come into danger from this (such as individual military personnel) and their sources there is no harm in my book. Other than humilation for a government that is not keeping the morals of this country.
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    Re: U.S. nervously awaits next WikiLeaks

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    You live life just fine living by the rule that the government should never lie to you? Well, I live life just fine living by the rule that everyone thinks I'm handsome and charming.
    It's sad to think that it is acceptable to people that people lie to them.
    I have an answer for everything...you may not like the answer or it may not satisfy your curiosity..but it will still be an answer. ~ Kal'Stang

    My mind and my heart are saying I'm in my twenties. My body is pointing at my mind and heart and laughing its ass off. ~ Kal'Stang

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    Re: U.S. nervously awaits next WikiLeaks

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    It's sad to think that it is acceptable to people that people lie to them.
    Even more sad is that people still think that it's possible to have a world without lies.
    People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

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    Re: U.S. nervously awaits next WikiLeaks

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    You live life just fine living by the rule that the government should never lie to you? Well, I live life just fine living by the rule that everyone thinks I'm handsome and charming.
    Hey, 1 out of 2 isn't bad.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

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    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

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    Re: U.S. nervously awaits next WikiLeaks

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    It's sad to think that it is acceptable to people that people lie to them.
    It's sad that you think a government can actually function under a policy of full and complete disclosure. Particularly one with the responsibility that ours has.
    “Offing those rich pigs with their own forks and knives, and then eating a meal in the same room, far out! The Weathermen dig Charles Manson.”-- Bernadine Dohrn

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    Re: U.S. nervously awaits next WikiLeaks

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Hey, 1 out of 2 isn't bad.
    Meaning what?
    “Offing those rich pigs with their own forks and knives, and then eating a meal in the same room, far out! The Weathermen dig Charles Manson.”-- Bernadine Dohrn

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    Re: U.S. nervously awaits next WikiLeaks

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    What a shocker that people who aren't Americans are giddy at the prospect of something that could embarrass America and undermine our security.
    Nothing to do with just disliking America.
    I'd be the same if it was British reports which will also be leaked by wikileaks as it was just on my news Whitehouse has given No. 10 a alert in regards to the leaks and British Government has classed it as a 'national security threat'
    Apparently it shows corruption between our two countries and the "special relationship" will be put to the test ..... imagine that? Including the Libyan bomber and Kurdish terrorists which US has allegedly been funding against its own ally Turkey.

    I want to know what my Government has been up too and also it says that corrupt politicans will be named and shamed. Who are not only American. Don't blame the leader of wikileaks, they didn't make up the information. It was Americans (and probably British individuals if the reports are accurate) who have shamed their nation. If these revelations is damaging to US and UK's reputation, we deserve it for our actions if it is proved to be true

    I just hope Wikileaks turns on Europe as well. Can't wait to see what has been behind closed doors of the "EU project"
    Last edited by Laila; 11-27-10 at 01:07 AM.


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