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Thread: U.S. nervously awaits next WikiLeaks

  1. #41
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    Re: U.S. nervously awaits next WikiLeaks

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    In other words not everything that the government keeps secret should be kept secret. In fact I would have to say most of what they keep secret and we then later find out about they should not be keeping secret.
    That specifically is a very ignorant and absurd statement as you have no knowledge at all as to what constitutes as the majority of what the state keeps in secret from the world population, and when you assume that "most of what they keep secret" is this and that you are admitting that you do not need to rely on what you know, on facts you are aware of, for your opinions to be held.

    I mean seriously...is there ANY good reason to keep things other than I have already mentioned secret?
    Abso****inglutely. Secret agreements between countries need to be kept in secret, else enemy entities and nations will be aware of the agreement and will act against it.
    Letting your enemy know of your next move is endangering your side - again, unbelievable, right?

    What was the ponit of having closed doors when they were discussing the HCR? The ONLY things that should be kept secret are those relating to our military.
    So you do not count as a supporter of the Wikileaks organization and its actions since it does leak information that mainly deals with the military and its actions.
    Nevertheless as pointed above the notion that only military related intel are to be kept in secret is almost as absurd; see the example of secret agreements between nations for diplomatic related leaks.

    Everything else should be left open for the People. After all, this is OUR country. NOT the governments country. Don't we have a right to know how our government is conducting itself?
    Your most important right is the right to safety and life, and that should be the top priority of the state and the government.
    Thus when letting you know something also means letting the state's enemies know something and thus means a risk of lives for you, the citizens of the state, the state must keep this 'something' in secret else it would be committing a crime against its own civilian population which it exists to protect.

    Likewise, when a third party, and not the state itself, is the one to let the civilians and the entire world know of those things that are kept in secret, it is engaging in an equal crime against the citizens of said state and must be held to justice by the state.
    Last edited by Apocalypse; 11-26-10 at 08:37 AM.
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  2. #42
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    Re: U.S. nervously awaits next WikiLeaks

    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    Fair enough.

    But the question I always ask when talking about Torture by the United States is "What about the innocents?". And I always get told "What Innocents?" Or "Link to abuse of an innocent".

    Can you name one person who's been affected by this? Is there a story on it.

    To be honest if there was I'd love to see it, because I think he should be held accountable.

    Moazzam Begg - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Binyam Mohamed - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

  3. #43
    Bohemian Revolutionary
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    Re: U.S. nervously awaits next WikiLeaks

    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    I understand that some have been outed.

    My point is, have any deaths occured because of it?
    Probably not. When those few hundred names came out the Taliban made a public comment that they were comparing the names to those on a hit list of some 10,000 people. That tells me two things:

    1. They are probably had all those names on their list already.
    2. They are not good at assassinating people they want dead anyway.

    Of course, even if the U.S. government was 100% aware that none of the people named were unknown to the Taliban it would still claim their lives were put in danger. Wikileaks could reveal a classified cable discussing cooking recipes and the U.S. government would say revealing it puts lives in danger. Like I said, the CIA wanted to bring down Wikileaks well before it leaked anything that could even remotely be spun as damaging.
    "For what is Evil but Good-tortured by its own hunger and thirst?"
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  4. #44
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    Re: U.S. nervously awaits next WikiLeaks

    The Wikileaks affair shows that Obama's America can't keep its affairs secret. American intelligence is a joke.

  5. #45
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    Re: U.S. nervously awaits next WikiLeaks

    [QUOTE]
    Quote Originally Posted by Orion View Post
    Well you are certainly entitled to your opinion on that, aren't you?
    It's amazing that Canadians still make this claim when, in fact, they aren't!

    YouTube - Entitled to my opinion?

  6. #46
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    Re: U.S. nervously awaits next WikiLeaks

    Quote Originally Posted by Apocalypse View Post
    That specifically is a very ignorant and absurd statement as you have no knowledge at all as to what constitutes as the majority of what the state keeps in secret from the world population, and when you assume that "most of what they keep secret" is this and that you are admitting that you do not need to rely on what you know, on facts you are aware of, for your opinions to be held.
    I would say it's a perfectly logical statement. It's the government in the end, they usually do things stupidly and inefficiently and they like to hide it where they can.

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    Re: U.S. nervously awaits next WikiLeaks

    [QUOTE]
    Quote Originally Posted by Red_Dave View Post
    "While Begg admits spending time at two Islamic militant training camps in Afghanistan, supporting militant Muslim fighters, buying a rifle and a handgun, that he "thought about" taking up arms in Chechnya, and being an acquaintance of people linked to terrorism (most notably, Khalil al-Deek, Dhiren Barot, and Shahid Akram Butt), he denies the remainder of the U.S.'s allegations".

    Born in Ethiopia, Mohamed came to United Kingdom in 1994, where he lived for seven years, sought political asylum and was given leave to remain while his case was resolved.[7]

    "In June 2001, Mohamed travelled to Afghanistan. The reasons for the trip are in dispute. British and U.S. authorities contend, and the US Military-appointed Personal Representative's Initial Interview notes state, that Mohamed admitted to receiving paramilitary training in the al Farouq training camp.[8] Mohamed's supporters contend that he had gone to conquer his drug problems and to see Muslim countries "with his own eyes". It should be noted that Mohamed contradicted this with his own statement in March 2005.[2] On 10 April 2002, Mohamed was arrested at Pakistan's Karachi airport by Pakistani authorities as a suspected terrorist, while attempting to fly to the UK using a false passport".

    Captives told to claim torture - Washington Times

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    Re: U.S. nervously awaits next WikiLeaks

    Quote Originally Posted by Ben K. View Post
    I would say it's a perfectly logical statement. It's the government in the end, they usually do things stupidly and inefficiently and they like to hide it where they can.
    The problem, Ben K, is that many people are very keen to see problems occur for the United States and their Allies in the WOT while no such criteria of honesty exists for the Islamic terrorists. In fact, if we at all mention what these many Muslims are up to the cry of "Islamophobia" arises.

    Let's hold all the democracies responsible for their actions but whenever there is any benefit of the doubt to be given, let's not give it to radical muslims. Check out
    taqiyya and you'll get a better idea of what the West faces.

  9. #49
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    Re: U.S. nervously awaits next WikiLeaks

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    What a shocker that people who aren't Americans are giddy at the prospect of something that could embarrass America and undermine our security.
    I read the CBC report and this report here on the BBC and the message seems to come across far more clearly that the shocks, embarrassment and undermining of security is on those who think the US is their ally.

    Why else would there be reports that the UK, Turkey, Israel, Denmark and Norway have been warned to expect potential embarrassment from the leaks?

    But then, it's not a shocker that some Americans and Yankee Canadians care only about the embarrassment that will fall on the US, and not on her allies.

  10. #50
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    Re: U.S. nervously awaits next WikiLeaks

    Quote Originally Posted by Infinite Chaos View Post
    I read the CBC report and this report here on the BBC and the message seems to come across far more clearly that the shocks, embarrassment and undermining of security is on those who think the US is their ally.

    Why else would there be reports that the UK, Turkey, Israel, Denmark and Norway have been warned to expect potential embarrassment from the leaks?
    Because the leaks will include conversations with both sides where they will be saying things that they would prefer not to be made public.

    But then, it's not a shocker that some Americans and Yankee Canadians care only about the embarrassment that will fall on the US, and not on her allies.
    Nowhere have I claimed that this would only negatively affect the US. The point is that because the cables are US cables, the US will be involved in all of the cables, while other countries will only be involved in a portion.
    People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

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