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Thread: U.S. nervously awaits next WikiLeaks

  1. #31
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    Re: U.S. nervously awaits next WikiLeaks

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    I'm saying that although most intelligent people are aware that countries do things like this behind the scenes, that doesn't mean that the specifics should be bared to the world.
    Why? (please keep in mind what I have already stated in this thread)

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    Everyone knows that everyone poops. Does that mean that you wouldn't have a problem with everyone you know watching you poop? Everyone knows that everyone lies. Does that mean that you wouldn't object to every one of your lies being categorized and exposed to the world?

    And like I said, most people are already aware of this. It's just how society works. We can't all live in a fantasy world where everything is smiles and handshakes.
    I don't think that anyone here even remotely thinks that everything is smiles and handshakes. I do think that we just want our government to not lie to us. There is never a time that lying is a good thing. And yes if my wife asks me if she is fat I will tell her straight up that yes she is. She knows me well enough that I always speak the truth. When she does tell me that I didn't have to tell her that I just ask her "you don't want me to lie do you?" She of course says no.

    It's actually pretty sad that it has become acceptable (or even expected) to lie in this society. I don't lie to people and I sure as hell expect them to not lie to me also. And once they do my trust in them is gone and may never come back.
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    Re: U.S. nervously awaits next WikiLeaks

    I could honestly care less about wiki leaks. It does not take a genius to figure out that the American government does shady things.

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    Re: U.S. nervously awaits next WikiLeaks

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    I don't think that anyone here even remotely thinks that everything is smiles and handshakes. I do think that we just want our government to not lie to us. There is never a time that lying is a good thing.
    And I think this is wildly unrealistic.
    People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

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    Re: U.S. nervously awaits next WikiLeaks

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    I wonder if an interesting discussion would be should the US government put an end to wikileaks out of national security?
    If I trusted politicians and govt I would not have any qualms about such an action.
    But, since I don't, the question, imho, is which side to err on, because doubtless there will be errors. Is it better to allow politicians and the govt too much power to cover things up? Or is it better to allow citizens too much power to expose govt secrets even if those secrets can be secrets of necessity? The best answer would be neither. But sadly, as fallible beings, it's not one of our choices.
    I may be wrong.

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    Re: U.S. nervously awaits next WikiLeaks

    Quote Originally Posted by txlibertarian View Post
    I could honestly care less about wiki leaks. It does not take a genius to figure out that the American government does shady things.
    Maybe you meant to say that you could NOT care less about wikileaks?
    I may be wrong.

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    Re: U.S. nervously awaits next WikiLeaks

    The United States Constitution offers great rights to its citizens, however, those rights can only be taken advantage of when there is an open and honest Government. A Government's morality is correlated and intrinsically linked to the information that its people are afforded. What is the purpose of a democratic and free society without widespread availability of information? Wikileaks is redefining what it means to be a free and open society!

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    Re: U.S. nervously awaits next WikiLeaks

    Quote Originally Posted by Musa View Post
    The United States Constitution offers great rights to its citizens, however, those rights can only be taken advantage of when there is an open and honest Government. A Government's morality is correlated and intrinsically linked to the information that its people are afforded. What is the purpose of a democratic and free society without widespread availability of information? Wikileaks is redefining what it means to be a free and open society!
    That's a highly idealistic view that one considers, when thinking about informants that are certain to be systematically murdered and tortured.

    The truth shall set free, but sometimes condemns others to death.

    I wish the truth to be out and open, but sometimes, and I mean sometimes, you have to do a bit of evil, to get a little more good.

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    Re: U.S. nervously awaits next WikiLeaks

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    And I think this is wildly unrealistic.
    I seem to live life just fine living by it. If I can do it then surely others can also?
    I have an answer for everything...you may not like the answer or it may not satisfy your curiosity..but it will still be an answer. ~ Kal'Stang

    My mind and my heart are saying I'm in my twenties. My body is pointing at my mind and heart and laughing its ass off. ~ Kal'Stang

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    Re: U.S. nervously awaits next WikiLeaks

    Through the recognition that we do not live in an ideal world where everyone is friends and through the recognition that states have enemies that are actually willing to cause harm to the state(unbelievable right?), one must thus also recognize that states would have to keep some things from being opened to public, specifically, from being accessible by their enemies. (Even more unbelievable)

    Hence and therefore, it is not automatically a "good thing" when an organization is somehow placing its hands on an information that the state and its military decide to keep in secret from its enemies and makes it open for its enemies and everyone to see. One must be fully aware that there is no difference at all between such action and between simply directly supplying the intelligence to enemy officials and organizations, there is no difference between such actions and the action of spying for an enemy.

    Now that we've cleared this notion by some that what states do (specifically the US) behind the public's eyes must be accessible by every single human being on earth lest we'd all be doomed, concerning the Wikileaks organization, if it would indeed release security related secret information, then by all means do arrest the person and close the organization for by all means, it is endangering human lives; soldiers and civilians alike.
    "The darkest places in hell are reserved for those who maintain their neutrality in times of moral crisis."

    Dante Alighieri

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    Re: U.S. nervously awaits next WikiLeaks

    Quote Originally Posted by Apocalypse View Post
    Through the recognition that we do not live in an ideal world where everyone is friends and through the recognition that states have enemies that are actually willing to cause harm to the state(unbelievable right?), one must thus also recognize that states would have to keep some things from being opened to public, specifically, from being accessible by their enemies. (Even more unbelievable)

    Hence and therefore, it is not automatically a "good thing" when an organization is somehow placing its hands on an information that the state and its military decide to keep in secret from its enemies and makes it open for its enemies and everyone to see. One must be fully aware that there is no difference at all between such action and between simply directly supplying the intelligence to enemy officials and organizations, there is no difference between such actions and the action of spying for an enemy.

    Now that we've cleared this notion by some that what states do (specifically the US) behind the public's eyes must be accessible by every single human being on earth lest we'd all be doomed, concerning the Wikileaks organization, if it would indeed release security related secret information, then by all means do arrest the person and close the organization for by all means, it is endangering human lives; soldiers and civilians alike.
    Hmm...I'm getting the feeling that there are quite a few people on this forum that doesn't read all the posts.....I seem to be repeating myself more and more lately :P

    From one of my previous posts in this thread.....

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    Perhaps you didn't read the part that I wrote that I now bold to bring to your attention? Since they seem intent on it I see no reason to worry about it. And if it does happen...well to be brutally honest...collateral damage. So long as it doesn't become something that happens regularly I'm willing to let it go.

    I'm tired of our government hiding anything and everything because they want to line their pockets. If this is what it takes to start making them honest, then so be it.

    I understand that there are some things that should be kept out of the public for short periods of time (when it comes to troops and troop movements) or even long term (when it comes to technological advantages for our military). However there is a lot that our government has been doing of late that should have been made available to the public AS they were talking about it. Example: Health care reform should have not had closed doors....AT ALL. Diplomatic talks should also be made available to the general public as we would have to abide by anything that was agreed upon.

    And many more things.
    In other words not everything that the government keeps secret should be kept secret. In fact I would have to say most of what they keep secret and we then later find out about they should not be keeping secret.

    I mean seriously...is there ANY good reason to keep things other than I have already mentioned secret? What was the ponit of having closed doors when they were discussing the HCR? The ONLY things that should be kept secret are those relating to our military. Everything else should be left open for the People. After all, this is OUR country. NOT the governments country. Don't we have a right to know how our government is conducting itself?
    I have an answer for everything...you may not like the answer or it may not satisfy your curiosity..but it will still be an answer. ~ Kal'Stang

    My mind and my heart are saying I'm in my twenties. My body is pointing at my mind and heart and laughing its ass off. ~ Kal'Stang

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