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U.S. nervously awaits next WikiLeaks

Kal'Stang said:
I seem to live life just fine living by it. If I can do it then surely others can also?
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You live life just fine living by the rule that the government should never lie to you? Well, I live life just fine living by the rule that everyone thinks I'm handsome and charming.
 
RightinNYC said:
Because the leaks will include conversations with both sides where they will be saying things that they would prefer not to be made public.



Nowhere have I claimed that this would only negatively affect the US. The point is that because the cables are US cables, the US will be involved in all of the cables, while other countries will only be involved in a portion.
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"The media does not yet know precisely what Wikileaks has - in what could be up to three million documents - and it is possible that the state department does not know exactly what the site has either, our correspondent says.

Newspaper reports indicate the release will include papers suggesting that Turkey helped al-Qaeda militants in Iraq, and that the US helped Iraq-based Kurdish separatists who have been engaged in a long conflict with Turkey.

The Russian foreign ministry told Interfax news agency that Moscow had not been officially contacted by the US state department over the possible leak of diplomatic correspondence.

But Russia's Kommersant newspaper said the expected release included discussions between US diplomats and Russian politicians and "unflattering" opinions of some of the latter.

The release is also thought to include cables concerning Israeli-American relations."

Doesn't sound like all are simply cables and conversations - if the section on the US upporting Turkey's enemies and accusations that Turkey in response aided Al-Qaeda turn out to be true.

Anyhow - it's all speculation at this point and Wikileaks are apparently enjoying the embarrassment they are causing the US.
 
In my mind, it is a given that there are indeed some things better kept from public knowledge.

The issue is not one of "full disclosure or full secrecy" - that is far too black and white.

Some things should, and some should not...But who gets the duty of deciding which things should and should not be public knowledge?

In some cases, I think there are things which would be better left unclassified.

In others, declassification or not classifying something enough is a terrible thing.

On the whole, I would rather some (relatively) inconsequential thing were classified, as opposed to declassifying something which might result in innocent persons dying.

Blah.

Life is too confusing, I’m going back to my book now… :mrgreen:
 
Apocalypse said:
That specifically is a very ignorant and absurd statement as you have no knowledge at all as to what constitutes as the majority of what the state keeps in secret from the world population, and when you assume that "most of what they keep secret" is this and that you are admitting that you do not need to rely on what you know, on facts you are aware of, for your opinions to be held.
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And it is also ignorant and absurd to think that the government doesn't keep secrets that the public should have known about from the get go. I've already given a couple of examples of such. While you did address one I notice that you did not answer the other. HCR closed doors. I'll get to the other below where you addressed it.

Apocalypse said:
Abso****inglutely. Secret agreements between countries need to be kept in secret, else enemy entities and nations will be aware of the agreement and will act against it.
Letting your enemy know of your next move is endangering your side - again, unbelievable, right?
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If your enemy is involved then it is about things that the military needs to be involved in. In which case, yeah sure, keep it secret. But there is no valid reason to keep things like trade agreement talks secret. Or negotiations with your enemy secret.

Apocalypse said:
So you do not count as a supporter of the Wikileaks organization and its actions since it does leak information that mainly deals with the military and its actions.
Nevertheless as pointed above the notion that only military related intel are to be kept in secret is almost as absurd; see the example of secret agreements between nations for diplomatic related leaks.
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There is a time limit on when military secrets should be kept secret. I've already listed such things but here they are again. Short term - troop movements. Long term - technological advantages.

Apocalypse said:
Your most important right is the right to safety and life, and that should be the top priority of the state and the government.
Thus when letting you know something also means letting the state's enemies know something and thus means a risk of lives for you, the citizens of the state, the state must keep this 'something' in secret else it would be committing a crime against its own civilian population which it exists to protect.
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Give an example and we'll go from there on this one.

Apocalypse said:
Likewise, when a third party, and not the state itself, is the one to let the civilians and the entire world know of those things that are kept in secret, it is engaging in an equal crime against the citizens of said state and must be held to justice by the state.
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Again, it depends on what is leaked. Since those at wikileaks seem to be intent on protecting those that may come into danger from this (such as individual military personnel) and their sources there is no harm in my book. Other than humilation for a government that is not keeping the morals of this country.
 
Harshaw said:
You live life just fine living by the rule that the government should never lie to you? Well, I live life just fine living by the rule that everyone thinks I'm handsome and charming.
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It's sad to think that it is acceptable to people that people lie to them.
 
Kal'Stang said:
It's sad to think that it is acceptable to people that people lie to them.
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Even more sad is that people still think that it's possible to have a world without lies.
 
Harshaw said:
You live life just fine living by the rule that the government should never lie to you? Well, I live life just fine living by the rule that everyone thinks I'm handsome and charming.
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Hey, 1 out of 2 isn't bad.
 
Kal'Stang said:
It's sad to think that it is acceptable to people that people lie to them.
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It's sad that you think a government can actually function under a policy of full and complete disclosure. Particularly one with the responsibility that ours has.
 
RightinNYC said:
What a shocker that people who aren't Americans are giddy at the prospect of something that could embarrass America and undermine our security.
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Nothing to do with just disliking America.
I'd be the same if it was British reports which will also be leaked by wikileaks as it was just on my news Whitehouse has given No. 10 a alert in regards to the leaks and British Government has classed it as a 'national security threat'
Apparently it shows corruption between our two countries and the "special relationship" will be put to the test ..... imagine that? Including the Libyan bomber and Kurdish terrorists which US has allegedly been funding against its own ally Turkey.

I want to know what my Government has been up too and also it says that corrupt politicans will be named and shamed. Who are not only American. Don't blame the leader of wikileaks, they didn't make up the information. It was Americans (and probably British individuals if the reports are accurate) who have shamed their nation. If these revelations is damaging to US and UK's reputation, we deserve it for our actions if it is proved to be true

I just hope Wikileaks turns on Europe as well. Can't wait to see what has been behind closed doors of the "EU project"
 
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TurtleDude said:
I wonder if an interesting discussion would be should the US government put an end to wikileaks out of national security?
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Won't happen.

Has no one else downloaded Wikileak's insurance files? I know I have. I even put it on 3 separate memory sticks.

In the event of his death or disappearance, the password will be released and all the millions who downloaded this file will have access to data. Must have something really bad if no one has shot him in the head to stop the password being released
 
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Laila said:
Won't happen.

Has no one else downloaded Wikileak's insurance files? I know I have. I even put it on 3 separate memory sticks.

In the event of his death or disappearance, the password will be released and all the millions who downloaded this file will have access to US and other unknown data. Must have something really bad if no one has shot him in the head to stop the password being released
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The Obama administration is feeding Wikileaks the information.
 
apdst said:
The Obama administration is feeding Wikileaks the information.
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Funny .....
hahano.gif
 
Laila said:
Nothing to do with just disliking America.
I'd be the same if it was British reports which will also be leaked by wikileaks as it was just on my news Whitehouse has given No. 10 a alert in regards to the leaks and British Government has classed it as a 'national security threat'
Apparently it shows corruption between our two countries and the "special relationship" will be put to the test ..... imagine that? Including the Libyan bomber and Kurdish terrorists which US has allegedly been funding against its own ally Turkey.

I want to know what my Government has been up too and also it says that corrupt politicans will be named and shamed. Who are not only American. Don't blame the leader of wikileaks, they didn't make up the information. It was Americans (and probably British individuals if the reports are accurate) who have shamed their nation. If these revelations is damaging to US and UK's reputation, we deserve it for our actions if it is proved to be true

I just hope Wikileaks turns on Europe as well. Can't wait to see what has been behind closed doors of the "EU project"
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And as I've said to Orion and Kalstang, I think that's very naive.

Laila said:
Won't happen.

Has no one else downloaded Wikileak's insurance files? I know I have. I even put it on 3 separate memory sticks.

In the event of his death or disappearance, the password will be released and all the millions who downloaded this file will have access to data. Must have something really bad if no one has shot him in the head to stop the password being released
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This is an example of a logical flaw, though I can't quite recall which one.
 
RightinNYC said:
And as I've said to Orion and Kalstang, I think that's very naive.

This is an example of a logical flaw, though I can't quite recall which one.
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Niave to want to know when corruption takes place in my country? Yes, I'm sure it must be devastating knowing the truth.
I can't wait to see if it is true US and UK has been funding even more terrorists. Our countries just do NOT learn does it from history?
Turkey is going be pissed at us and I don't blame them if it is true we have been funding terrorists against them which have harmed their civilians. Bet we will shove them right into Iran's arms now

I want to get access to the encrypted folder. I wish US all the best in taking it down if it means I get to see the contents of the folder :shrug:
 
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Jetboogieman said:
By this statement, do you even consider the possibility? Come on man, niether of you can be serious.
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I'm deliberately understating it, because making an affirmative claim to apdst tends to derail the thread with his constant demands that you prove your point, even if he's the one who made the argument in the first place.
 
Why do you guys seem to think that everything secret must be an example of "corruption"?
 
Laila said:
Niave to want to know when corruption takes place in my country? Yes, I'm sure it must be devastating knowing the truth.
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It's absolutely naive to think that it's a good idea for countries to have huge swaths of their private diplomatic correspondence published.

I want to get access to the encrypted folder. I wish US all the best in taking it down if it means I get to see the folder :shrug:
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This of course assumes that there's anything of value in the folder.
 
Harshaw said:
Why do you guys seem to think that everything secret must be an example of "corruption"?
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If you know more than everyone else, then it's an affront to your intelligence that the government would dare to keep secrets from you.
 
RightinNYC said:
It's absolutely naive to think that it's a good idea for countries to have huge swaths of their private diplomatic correspondence published.

This of course assumes that there's anything of value in the folder.
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Indeed but I shall never know without seeing inside it which means I need the password and the only way to get the password is to have something happens.

Oh well.
Apparently there is also alot of French bashing between the British and American Diplomats ... Heh.
 
What makes you think it's necessary for you to know?
 
Laila said:
Niave to want to know when corruption takes place in my country? Yes, I'm sure it must be devastating knowing the truth.
I can't wait to see if it is true US and UK has been funding even more terrorists. Our countries just do NOT learn does it from history?
Turkey is going be pissed at us and I don't blame them if it is true we have been funding terrorists against them which have harmed their civilians. Bet we will shove them right into Iran's arms now

I want to get access to the encrypted folder. I wish US all the best in taking it down if it means I get to see the contents of the folder :shrug:
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Realistically Turkey knows this already

The probability that the US has been directly assisting the PKK/PJAK terror groups has been reported already. What this may do is provide US government documents supporting those reports. Not earth shattering just damaging to US public image in Europe, Canada and even within the US.

I mean how can you be leading a war against terror when supporting a terrorist group that is fighting an ally

Of course some will say the actions of Turkey of late are not those of an ally to which I will point out that the US support of the PKK predates recent Turkish action that the US has found objectionable with the exception of not allowing the US to use Turkish territory in the invasion of Iraq
 
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