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Thread: U.S. nervously awaits next WikiLeaks

  1. #91
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    Re: U.S. nervously awaits next WikiLeaks

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    Well, when you can show an army which has ever conducted significant operations without mishaps or any large organizations which don't have anyone who does something wrong, I might buy that Wikileaks is doing something other than simply delivering fodder for people who delight in bashing. Oh, and gossip.
    Meh, I agree with you in general.
    If it delivers Saudi records tho, I think I may just come from excitement.

    I would hope from the bottom of my heart it is so controversial the data and hardlines take place over the Saudi Royals and if that was a side effect. I'd be cheering it on, believe me


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    Re: U.S. nervously awaits next WikiLeaks

    Quote Originally Posted by Laila View Post
    If it leads to it, no.

    Turkey is gradually becoming more hard lined for many reasons, the population are becoming, thank god more practising Muslims and the side effect is Conservatism. Wouldn't surprise me if religion takes a hold in Turkey over secularism
    So you're saying that you think this leak is awesome, but if it ends up causing a completely plausible result, then you'll be unhappy.

    Given that, it seems a bit short-sighted to be cheering for this leak the way you have.
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    Re: U.S. nervously awaits next WikiLeaks

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    That's not the question. I'm asking whether you'll still think this disclosure is a good thing if it leads to destabilization in turkey (or other ME nations) where more hard-liners take control.
    It wont destabilize Turkey. Turkey has been in my opinion adjusting its policies in part because of this, it has also prosecuted those that might try to form a coup against the Turkish government (the deep state). The PKK are already acting against the Turkish government. It will cause the more secular groups in Turkey a decline in prospects for future electoral success though
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    Re: U.S. nervously awaits next WikiLeaks

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    There's a difference in impact between "The US is doing bad things! I'm telling you so you know it must be true!" and "The US is doing bad things! Here are the most inflammatory quotes directly from their documents, hand-picked by Der Spiegel, the Guardian and the NY Times!"
    Or, selectively released by Wikileaks.
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    Re: U.S. nervously awaits next WikiLeaks

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    So you're saying that you think this leak is awesome, but if it ends up causing a completely plausible result, then you'll be unhappy.

    Given that, it seems a bit short-sighted to be cheering for this leak the way you have.
    You asked whether it would be a good thing. I said No, if it occurs.


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    Re: U.S. nervously awaits next WikiLeaks

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    There's a difference in impact between "The US is doing bad things! I'm telling you so you know it must be true!" and "The US is doing bad things! Here are the most inflammatory quotes directly from their documents, hand-picked by Der Spiegel, the Guardian and the NY Times!"
    Turkish media have reported finding US arms in the hands of PKK terrorists that it captured or killed. The Turkish government has complained about US support of the PKK publically. I am sure that any turk who pays any attention to current events believes the US has been supporting the PKK. Somethng reported in Der Spiegel is not going to change it. At most confirm it. The greatest effect will be in public opinion of europeans and Americans
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    Re: U.S. nervously awaits next WikiLeaks

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Tammerlain View Post
    It wont destabilize Turkey. Turkey has been in my opinion adjusting its policies in part because of this, it has also prosecuted those that might try to form a coup against the Turkish government (the deep state). The PKK are already acting against the Turkish government. It will cause the more secular groups in Turkey a decline in prospects for future electoral success though
    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Tammerlain View Post
    Turkish media have reported finding US arms in the hands of PKK terrorists that it captured or killed. The Turkish government has complained about US support of the PKK publically. I am sure that any turk who pays any attention to current events believes the US has been supporting the PKK. Somethng reported in Der Spiegel is not going to change it. At most confirm it. The greatest effect will be in public opinion of europeans and Americans
    Again, I think there's a substantial difference in the potential impact between individual reports of some tenuous ties and direct written confirmation of the nitty gritty details.

    Quote Originally Posted by Laila View Post
    You asked whether it would be a good thing. I said No, if it occurs.
    What I'm saying is that I find it odd that you are supporting the leaks in the name of transparency, even though there is a non-trivial chance that the practical result of these leaks could be something that you would find objectionable.

    In my book, real world consequences are more important than distorted versions of theoretical goals like "increased transparency".
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    Re: U.S. nervously awaits next WikiLeaks

    Quote Originally Posted by Heavy Duty View Post
    Just remember neighbor to the North, when America is weaken you are at risk yourself without our blanket of protection. Without America, whom will Canada lean on? Yourselves.......................LOL
    If you knew about Canadian history maybe you'd see a twin or a possibly friend - rather than this stupid 'we hate Canadians' BS that comes from nowhere from a lot of Americans.

    They've gone through the same stupid **** with the British Crown like we have.
    They've fought the same fights we have. . . though we haven't always gotten along in this area.
    They've supported us and we've supported them.

    So - why the hate?

    And with the 'we're #1!' attitude about our country naturally no on else would 'be #1!' - but those who aren't '#1!' are often just hated for the fact that they aren't '#1!'
    Last edited by Aunt Spiker; 11-27-10 at 03:48 AM.
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    Re: U.S. nervously awaits next WikiLeaks

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    Assuming this is true, this is my point. Whereas before this would have been handled by intelligent diplomats, it would now be fodder for militants and extremists to push their government toward a more hardline stance. That would cause a deterioration in our relations and would lead to more strife in the region.

    Laila/Orion/Kal stang - does that sound like a good thing to you?
    Of course it would cause a deterioration in our relations. Duh. Do you think that people actually LIKE being lied to? Do you think that people actually LIKE being plotted against in one hand and the other hand being all buddy buddy? Do you really think that there are not consequences to actions?

    It is the nature of secrets to eventually be leaked out. If no one truely thought that this was never going to happen then they need to get their heads out of the sand. At least with what I have been argueing for the consequences to anything bad that happened would be far far less.

    Our government made it's bed. Now it has to lie in it.

    So in direct answer to your question. In the short term. No it's not a good idea. However in the long term? I think that it would do us some good. Assuming that we actually did this novel thing called "learning from our past mistakes".
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    Re: U.S. nervously awaits next WikiLeaks

    Quote Originally Posted by Aunt Spiker View Post
    If you knew about Canadian history maybe you'd see a twin or a possibly friend - rather than this stupid 'we hate Canadians' BS that comes from nowhere from a lot of Americans.

    They've gone through the same stupid **** with the British Crown like we have.
    They've fought the same fights we have. . . though we haven't always gotten along in this area.
    They've supported us and we've supported them.

    So - why the hate?

    And with the 'we're #1!' attitude about our country naturally no on else would 'be #1!' - but those who aren't '#1!' are often just hated for the fact that they aren't '#1!'
    I consider the attitude between the US and Canada to be akin to high school rivalry. We hate each other because we are on opposite sides of the court. But the moment things got rough we normally band together due to respect for each other. Even if we don't show that respect.
    I have an answer for everything...you may not like the answer or it may not satisfy your curiosity..but it will still be an answer. ~ Kal'Stang

    My mind and my heart are saying I'm in my twenties. My body is pointing at my mind and heart and laughing its ass off. ~ Kal'Stang

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