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Thread: North Korea reportedly fires at South

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    Re: North Korea reportedly fires at South

    Quote Originally Posted by The Mark View Post
    Since when has this "historical perspective" you speak of had ANY bearing on these modern times, let alone any time?

    I've never heard of anyone paying much attention to it, so why should we start now?

    Edit: And, on a side note, I am 100% sure that a military operation with a name like "Operation Frequent Wind" garnered a HUGE number of jokes about it...
    That's why mistakes keep getting repeated.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: North Korea reportedly fires at South

    Quote Originally Posted by The Mark View Post
    I would think the NK's “peasants” (I use that word because that seems to be how they are treated, sort of) might be more likely to work with an attacking force, rather than against it, depending on how said attacking force acted, what their intentions were…and so forth.

    Of course, that assumes my limited understanding of how NK treats it’s “citizens” is at least partially accurate.

    And that their propaganda can be overcome.
    If we go in to defeat the Norks, then, by your logic, they won't work with us. If we hit the Norks with the maximum amount of violence and destroy any will to resisit, then they will deal with our presence. If they don't, then that means there'll just be some more killing to be done.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: North Korea reportedly fires at South

    Quote Originally Posted by donc View Post
    Before you post s*** you might at least check what I was responding to. Yes I did consider that photo but settled on the on I posted. The only objection had with the one I posted is that it took up too much space and people have to toggle it out back and forth.enjoy GB.
    Of course you considered that photo; especially, since those people are mostly Vietnamese nationals and not the U.S. military and it was taken in 1975, three years after all US forces had withdrawn from Vietnam; in an orderly, phased withdrawel.

    But, hey; let's not let historical facts get in our way. Right?
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: North Korea reportedly fires at South

    Quote Originally Posted by EnigmaO01 View Post
    Well that's a no brainer. I was responding to the statement that seemed to think it would all be over in no time with our air strikes and more modern technology. That didn't even happen in Iraq. The enemy just hid, adapted, and resumed a different tact as they knew they couldn't beat us in conventional means. Then they started blowing the **** out of us with IED's.
    Actaully, the enemy fought us the front of public opinion.

    There were 80,000+ IED's employed and American casualties totalled about 4,000. Not exactly, "blowing the ****", out of us. If the bad guys would have their version of MSNBC, or CNN, the IED strategy would have been a complete failure. But, luckily for the terrorists, MSNBC and CNN are on our side.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: North Korea reportedly fires at South

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Of course you considered that photo; especially, since those people are mostly Vietnamese nationals and not the U.S. military and it was taken in 1975, three years after all US forces had withdrawn from Vietnam; in an orderly, phased withdrawel.

    But, hey; let's not let historical facts get in our way. Right?
    It pertained to what/who i was responding to, sorry you didn't like my choice of pictures, will try to get your approval before i post anymore pics in the future.
    The haggardness of poverty is everywhere seen contrasted with the sleekness of wealth, the exhorted labor of some compensating for the idleness of others, wretched hovels by the side of stately colonnades, the rags of indigence blended with the ensigns of opulence; in a word, the most useless profusion in the midst of the most urgent wants.Jean-Baptiste Say

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    Re: North Korea reportedly fires at South

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    That's why mistakes keep getting repeated.
    My point exactly...

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    If we go in to defeat the Norks, then, by your logic, they won't work with us. If we hit the Norks with the maximum amount of violence and destroy any will to resist, then they will deal with our presence. If they don't, then that means there'll just be some more killing to be done.
    WTH are you talking about?

    I was imagining a scenario wherein we do our utmost to destroy any and all NK military forces that do not surrender (especially taking out any ability to nuke our forces ASAP), and at the same time do our utmost to get the NK civilians working with us to root out any military that try to go guerrilla on us.

    And guerrilla force needs some form of supply/support, I doubt they could last long without any supplies, and if the civilians are on our side…

    But, as I said, it depends (in part) on overcoming any propaganda the NK powers that be have been feeding their people for the last 50 years…

    You for some reason seem to be lumping every single person in NK into one whole…
    Education.

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    Re: North Korea reportedly fires at South

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Actaully, the enemy fought us the front of public opinion.

    There were 80,000+ IED's employed and American casualties totalled about 4,000. Not exactly, "blowing the ****", out of us. If the bad guys would have their version of MSNBC, or CNN, the IED strategy would have been a complete failure. But, luckily for the terrorists, MSNBC and CNN are on our side.
    Firstly there were more to IEDs than targetting Americans, and secondly the American Army doesn't exactly have a steller record of "bombs/bullets per kill." I agree that the battle over public opinion was just as important, but youre underestimated how often a weapon actually has to kill someone for it to be effective.

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    Re: North Korea reportedly fires at South

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    Firstly there were more to IEDs than targetting Americans, and secondly the American Army doesn't exactly have a steller record of "bombs/bullets per kill." I agree that the battle over public opinion was just as important, but youre underestimated how often a weapon actually has to kill someone for it to be effective.
    So, you agree that IED's did more for the war for public opinion--with the help of the mainstream media--than they did for the actual war on the battlefield?

    IOW, the anti-war media found something that they could blow out of proportion, so as to undermine the American war effort.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: North Korea reportedly fires at South

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    So, you agree that IED's did more for the war for public opinion--with the help of the mainstream media--than they did for the actual war on the battlefield?

    IOW, the anti-war media found something that they could blow out of proportion, so as to undermine the American war effort.
    IED's demonized the war. But really, it exposed the inherent problem behind the war: the public didn't expect it to become an occupation. If we'd gone in, lost the same amount of soldiers against the Iraqi Army, and then gotten out, the public would be pissed, but they would be satisfied in the knowledge that we whupped up on the guys who did it to us. With IED's, we don't always find the lucky a**hole with a shovel and mortar shell, instead all we see is our Humvees getting blown to pieces.

    In a lot of ways, the media made it worse, but the problem was there to begin with, on a fundamental level: we hate fighting and enemy we can't see, and we want to watch our enemies get the sh*t beaten out of them. Thats what we're missing from this war, and fear-mongering also makes for better ratings. Honestly, the media isn't trying to undermine anything, and to think that is absurd. Our media is only there to make money, and they need ratings for that.
    Last edited by repeter; 11-27-10 at 11:49 PM.
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    Re: North Korea reportedly fires at South

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    So, you agree that IED's did more for the war for public opinion--with the help of the mainstream media--than they did for the actual war on the battlefield?

    IOW, the anti-war media found something that they could blow out of proportion, so as to undermine the American war effort.
    The IEDs had a massive impact on the actual war and I include the war for public opinion in that as well. However as far as degrading our combat effectiveness in traditional military thinking, they weren't a major threat. By that I mean we still had a military on the ground which could move, engage, etc. But this wasn't a traditional war, the objective often had nothing to do with traditional military fighting, and a single IED or threat of an IED could by itself could massively undermine US power in the area.

    Part of that war was to protect the locals, which became very difficult not only when they were fighting each other but when they, and outside groups, used IEDs and other unconventional methods.
    Not every single IED attack or threat made it onto news in the US, however it had real impacts within Iraq, on the Soldiers, and on the operational environment even if it was never reported or heard about in the US.

    Now as far as your anti-war media trying to lose the war for the US, well if you're going to argue a conspiracy theory provide evidence of their intent to do that or go to the proper forum.

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