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Thread: North Korea reportedly fires at South

  1. #341
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    Re: North Korea reportedly fires at South

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Invisible View Post
    Currently the US and South Korea are going to do or are currently doing military drills in China's EEZ, which is bad because that isn't making China particularly happy and that will not translate into them working with the US and Russia to try and calm down North Korea.
    Actually, I don't believe they will be conducted in China's EEZ, but rather closer to the South Korean coast in their own EEZ. Not that it really matters as states don't have sovereign rights in their EEZ, only economic rights.
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    Re: North Korea reportedly fires at South

    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant Noodle View Post
    I say THIS is the war the war America was MADE for. Subs are probably going into position. DESTROY THEM!!!!
    War is very messy and leads to more wars. If we hadn't divided Korea we wouldn't be dealing with this now.

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    Re: North Korea reportedly fires at South

    Quote Originally Posted by EnigmaO01 View Post
    War is very messy and leads to more wars. If we hadn't divided Korea we wouldn't be dealing with this now.
    Define we...
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  4. #344
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    Re: North Korea reportedly fires at South

    Debate Politics: UPDATE



    South Korea honors slain marines; commander vows 'thousand-fold' retaliation
    S. Korea commander vows retaliation - World news - Asia-Pacific - North Korea - msnbc.com


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    Last edited by The Giant Noodle; 11-27-10 at 02:27 AM.
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    Re: North Korea reportedly fires at South

    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant Noodle View Post
    I say THIS is the war the war America was MADE for. Subs are probably going into position. DESTROY THEM!!!!
    I don't undertand your sentiment. Our history is rich with diverse conflict. We have engaged as guerillas and beaten guerillas. We have beaten religious extremists long before AL-Queda. We have engaged against pirates in the Med. We have fought in jungles and deserts. We have fought the grandest sea battles and engaged in World Wars. We have fought and emerged as victors against a nuclear enemy bent on shaping the world towards communist and oppressive idealism. It is true that the Army has made it a bad habit of focusing far too much on big box wars, but the entire military is specialized for all occassions. America has proven to have been "made" to do anything.

    America's greatest mission for the last 200+ years has been to shatter empires and globalize the world. Obviously, this was in our best interests for survival, but plenty have gone before us with the same sense of self interests without the greater moral clause. North Korea represents the next step in this nuclear game. With much of the world seeking out American sins to soothe their own decrepit histories or criticizing it unfairly without any sense of responsibility, we are quickly being left with no friends and no options. The UN is riddled filthy with dictators and diplomats that only represent themselves. Our enemies can't even figure out a straight story on why they hate us. And our allies do as little as possible with mouse like voices so as to excuse themselves from any responsibility or blame.

    The Korean leadership has proven enough to care only for themselves. Their people are of little consequence. With survival of power being their only goal in this world, launching a nuclear weapon into South Korean forces (where American troops have been camped out for decades) is absolutely in the realm of possibility. We are dealing with people who would rather see their people dead than to give them the power to usurp them. They have traveled too far down the road of pride to simply excuse themselves from the very weapon that has sustained them thus far.

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    Re: North Korea reportedly fires at South

    [QUOTE]
    Quote Originally Posted by donc View Post
    Where is the strawman?The only strawman I see is the two you built.

    The first one enters with the first sentence in your post.(Wait wait wait.....we've been down this road with liberals before)the strawman in this example is the dreaded LIBRAL.
    Perhaps this is because Liberals tend to be for wars, and vote for them, until they are soon against them. They will refuse to see any war through to completion by always looking for "withdrawal" dates, and will not support their leaders should the American people dare elect a Republican.

    The Left has the image of being quite shallow and indecisive , and its a reputation well earned.

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    Re: North Korea reportedly fires at South

    Quote Originally Posted by EnigmaO01 View Post
    War is very messy and leads to more wars. If we hadn't divided Korea we wouldn't be dealing with this now.
    War is messy certainly, but things can become messier when left unattended.

    In WWII, Germany and Japan weren't just defeated, as Germany was in WWI, they were absolutely devastated. Since then they have both been doing very well making fine automobiles and electronics, pursuits more likely to encourage good will then any ideas of international imperialism.

    So the lesson is, if you are going to enter a war, do it quickly and intend to win absolutely convincingly, with no doubt remaining that further punishment will follow should there be any idea of continued warfare. Drop the big one on Kim Jong and his cronies and everyone else will snap to attention quite quickly. The world just has to get serious about this craziness.

  8. #348
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    Re: North Korea reportedly fires at South

    the key to resolution of this dilemma is held by china

    what is in china's best interest to do?

    we can rule out reunification of the koreas as china would lose both its physical buffer and control of a state now in its orbit
    we can rule out china tolerating an assault on NK
    china does not want to have to assimilate a huge exodus of north koreans fleeing to become wards of the chinese state
    neither is it in china's best interest to condone a family of crazy paranoids to precipitate all three of the above results, or a successor military junta which would bring more of the same

    we can do little more to directly influence NK's actions. the key is china. the international community needs to take actions which will motivate china to place the government of NK on a short leash
    but what would that be? china is a creditor nation and requires no infusion of loans. it can afford to buy political and commercial influence. its defensive military capabilities are adequate, so threat of war will not move it. and while imposing trade restrictions might appear to be an obvious target we need to recognize a few things. first, china could also respond in kind and limit imports to its expanding middle class market. second, china offers goods at a discounted price. who is going to be willing to forgo cheaper goods and instead substitute higher priced alternatives instead? look at the US and its reliance on foreign oil supplies which indirectly funds terrorist actions against our nation .... yet we refuse to cut the oil umbilical cord and develop alternatives - because we want the cheapest available commodity now
    so, i don't recognize curtailing trade with china as being the way we incentivize china to bring NK to heel

    don't anticipate any quick resolution to this problem. it is one only china can cure and only when china recognizes it is in its best interest to accomplish
    we are negotiating about dividing a pizza and in the meantime israel is eating it
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    Re: North Korea reportedly fires at South

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    the key to resolution of this dilemma is held by china

    what is in china's best interest to do?

    we can rule out reunification of the koreas as china would lose both its physical buffer and control of a state now in its orbit
    we can rule out china tolerating an assault on NK
    china does not want to have to assimilate a huge exodus of north koreans fleeing to become wards of the chinese state
    neither is it in china's best interest to condone a family of crazy paranoids to precipitate all three of the above results, or a successor military junta which would bring more of the same

    we can do little more to directly influence NK's actions. the key is china. the international community needs to take actions which will motivate china to place the government of NK on a short leash
    but what would that be? china is a creditor nation and requires no infusion of loans. it can afford to buy political and commercial influence. its defensive military capabilities are adequate, so threat of war will not move it. and while imposing trade restrictions might appear to be an obvious target we need to recognize a few things. first, china could also respond in kind and limit imports to its expanding middle class market. second, china offers goods at a discounted price. who is going to be willing to forgo cheaper goods and instead substitute higher priced alternatives instead? look at the US and its reliance on foreign oil supplies which indirectly funds terrorist actions against our nation .... yet we refuse to cut the oil umbilical cord and develop alternatives - because we want the cheapest available commodity now
    so, i don't recognize curtailing trade with china as being the way we incentivize china to bring NK to heel

    don't anticipate any quick resolution to this problem. it is one only china can cure and only when china recognizes it is in its best interest to accomplish
    No, the key, as always, is the United States. It all depends on how convincingly America wants to exert its power.

    Ceding the power to China, and allowing them to take control of the situation, is not in anyones long term interest. This is a lonely decision for American leadership, because they will be criticized from within and without whatever they do. But it the real world they are the leader, not China.

  10. #350
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    Re: North Korea reportedly fires at South

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    No, the key, as always, is the United States. It all depends on how convincingly America wants to exert its power.

    Ceding the power to China, and allowing them to take control of the situation, is not in anyones long term interest. This is a lonely decision for American leadership, because they will be criticized from within and without whatever they do. But it the real world they are the leader, not China.
    ok, let's run with your premise that the USA is the real key and can assert its power to effect change in NK
    what exactly does the USA do to alter NK's ways?
    i look forward to your response
    we are negotiating about dividing a pizza and in the meantime israel is eating it
    once you're over the hill you begin to pick up speed

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