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Thread: Critics Slam Obama Administration for 'Hiding' Massive Saudi Arms Deal

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    Re: Critics Slam Obama Administration for 'Hiding' Massive Saudi Arms Deal

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    We should not be selling weapons to any country regardless if they are a friend or foe. Friends can turn into enemies.
    If we created the weapons, we know the vulnerabilities.

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    Re: Critics Slam Obama Administration for 'Hiding' Massive Saudi Arms Deal

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    The bright side of selling arms to potential enemies, is that we're the only ones they can get spare parts from when the weapons start wearing out. .
    What would stop them from starting a factory to make more parts or giving some weapons to a ally of theirs to mass produce the weapons and make parts?


    Plus, we have a better knowledge of how to defend against our own weapons than we do weapons from another country.
    Wouldn't they as well after a while know how to defend against us?
    Last edited by jamesrage; 11-21-10 at 10:49 PM.
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

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    Re: Critics Slam Obama Administration for 'Hiding' Massive Saudi Arms Deal

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    What would stop them from starting a factory to make more parts or giving some weapons to a ally of theirs to mass produce the weapons and make parts?



    Wouldn't they as well after a while know how to defend against us?
    In all likely hood China has all the specs for the F15. F16 and apache already, from one of the various US allies. Most likely it has been able to do a tear down and rebuild on an F16, but not the F15 as fewer F15 have been exported. I expect that Pakistan has provided China with any info regarding US weapon systems that Pakistan has.

    http://www.isn.ethz.ch/isn/Current-A...ng=en&id=52775

    China's Peoples' Liberation Army (PLA) unveiled the latest addition to its rapidly modernizing air force on 5 January with the first public flight of Chengdu Aircraft Industry Corporation's Jian-10 fighter.

    The flight has once again drawn unwanted attention to the alleged role of Israeli companies in the fabrication and arming of the plane, jeopardizing the recently repaired US-Israeli defense relationship.

    The Jian-10 (J-10) - also known as the F-10 for export - is a single-engine, single-seat tactical fighter with an estimated combat radius of 1,000 kilometers. Despite Chinese claims that most of the plane's systems were domestically designed, many aerospace industry commentators believe that the plane was built with technological support from Russia and Israeli defense companies RAFAEL and Israel Aerospace Industries (IAI) - formerly Israel Aircraft Industries.

    Resurrection
    There has been recurring media speculation in recent years that the J-10 was constructed using information gleaned from a Pakistani-supplied US F-16 and technological details of Israel's scrapped Lavi fighter.

    The Lavi program - also based on the F-16 - was started in 1983 to provide Israel with its own multi-task fighter. The program received US$1.3 billion in development funding from Washington before its demise under heavy US pressure in 1987
    ?
    The above provides an example of two allies providing weapons technology to a potential enemy
    Last edited by Lord Tammerlain; 11-21-10 at 11:14 PM.
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    Re: Critics Slam Obama Administration for 'Hiding' Massive Saudi Arms Deal

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Tammerlain View Post
    In all likely hood China has all the specs for the F15. F16 and apache already, from one of the various US allies. Most likely it has been able to do a tear down and rebuild on an F16, but not the F15 as fewer F15 have been exported. I expect that Pakistan has provided China with any info regarding US weapon systems that Pakistan has.
    Everything you've said is true. The Pakistanis even provided the Chinese with a complete F-16. The Chinese reverse engineered it and it became the basis for the J-10 or J-11.

    Chinese espionage within America is also very effective. Many Chinese spies have infiltrated the American defense industry. People like Chi Mak and his family.

    These are some of the reasons the Chinese military buildup has been so rapid and successful.

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    Re: Critics Slam Obama Administration for 'Hiding' Massive Saudi Arms Deal

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Tammerlain View Post
    In all likely hood China has all the specs for the F15. F16 and apache already, from one of the various US allies. Most likely it has been able to do a tear down and rebuild on an F16, but not the F15 as fewer F15 have been exported. I expect that Pakistan has provided China with any info regarding US weapon systems that Pakistan has.

    Israeli fighter allegedly reborn in China / ISN


    The above provides an example of two allies providing weapons technology to a potential enemy
    This reaffirms why we should not sell weapons to other countries.
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

    Cicero Marcus Tullius

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    Re: Critics Slam Obama Administration for 'Hiding' Massive Saudi Arms Deal

    Vowing to change a region that has resisted the best efforts of presidents and prime ministers past, Barack Obama dove head first into the Middle East peace process on his second day in office.

    He was supposed to be different. His personal identity, his momentum, his charisma and his promise of a fresh start would fundamentally alter America’s relations with the Muslim world and settle one of its bitterest grievances.

    Two years later, he has managed to forge surprising unanimity on at least one topic: Barack Obama. A visit here finds both Israelis and Palestinians blame him for the current stalemate – just as they blame one another.

    Instead of becoming a heady triumph of his diplomatic skill and special insight, Obama’s peace process is viewed almost universally in Israel as a mistake-riddled fantasy. And far from becoming the transcendent figure in a centuries-old drama, Obama has become just another frustrated player on a hardened Mideast landscape.

    The political peace process to which Obama committed so much energy is considered a failure so far. And in the world’s most pro-American state, the public and its leaders have lost any faith in Obama and – increasingly — even in the notion of a politically negotiated peace.

    Even those who still believe in the process that Obama has championed view his conduct as a deeply unfunny comedy of errors.

    Some fret that not only has Obama failed to move the process forward, but that he and his Israeli and Palestinian counterparts may have dealt it a setback that will leave it worse off than when they began.
    View from Middle East: President Obama is a problem - Ben Smith - POLITICO.com

    the rub---the bonehead needs netanyahu to stop the settlements, but the chosen remain recalcitrant, chomping over his treatment of them the last 2 years

    no one, either side, has a drop of hope, only pissed off pessimism and despair

    the israelis are incensed over this saudi arms deal, eighty four f15's

    oblivious obama is today trying to bribe bibi with a couple B's of bombers in return for a bare 90 day ban on building on the bank

    a blueprint embrassingly bereft

    and this is hillary's baby, don't forget, she's been all over this

    none of them knows what he or she is doing

    apparently, the stuff you learn in the faculty rooms at harvard simply doesn't travel well, just behind the ivy is a brick wall, all real

    is politico spinning again?

    or are roger simon's journo listers simply reporting on what can't be denied?
    Last edited by The Prof; 11-22-10 at 12:03 PM.

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    Re: Critics Slam Obama Administration for 'Hiding' Massive Saudi Arms Deal

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    It would be a better debate, if you would stop claiming that everyone who isn't an Obamabot, is a racist.
    Still don't wanna address my original post?

    I wasn't calling him a racist towards Obama, I'm calling him out once again for trying to t urn every thread into a muslim bashing fest.

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    Re: Critics Slam Obama Administration for 'Hiding' Massive Saudi Arms Deal

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    This reaffirms why we should not sell weapons to other countries.
    The problem is that making advanced weapons is the only thing America still does well. If we don't sell weapons to the world what do we have to sell? Cheeseburgers and annuities?

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    Re: Critics Slam Obama Administration for 'Hiding' Massive Saudi Arms Deal

    Ooo, ooo, I know the answer to this one!

    Toxic financial instruments!
    I'm already gearing up for Finger Vote 2014.

    Just for reference, means my post was a giant steaming pile of sarcasm.

  10. #40
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    Re: Critics Slam Obama Administration for 'Hiding' Massive Saudi Arms Deal

    Since when are we actually short on weapons? We have an arsenal that would allow us to destroy the world dozens of times over. What difference are a few rockets and airplanes going to make? While I certainly can't support the proliferation of weapons and warfare anywhere in the world, it's not like we actually need a lot of the weapons we have. On one hand, I agree with Jamesrage. We don't need to be putting more weapons out into the world. That will only lead to more violence. On the other hand, we cry and moan about how the US needs more money.
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