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Thread: Obama's Democrats in disarray over expiring tax cuts

  1. #81
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    Re: Obama's Democrats in disarray over expiring tax cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by Protectionist View Post
    I am 65 years old, I remember the 60's, the 50's, and even the 40's a little bit. Sure there were exemptions, and I stated that business owners could be exempt. As for the rich finding loopholes, sure they do, and that's what we're paying government officials for. To close those loopholes as soon as they find them. It's a cat & mouse game, but the rich win totally if you just don't engage, and then lose by default.
    As for me, no, I wouldn't be comfortable sucking in a Billion/year. I'd know there's no way I could have earned that much, and I'd be depriving others (those employed in my company working for much less). My soul is a lot more valuable than excess wealth, which I would have no way of making use of anyway. How do you spend a Billion dollars ? More than 40 of the nation's millionaires have joined Patriotic Millionaires for Fiscal Strength, including Warren Buffet, to ask President Obama to discontinue the tax breaks established for them during the Bush administration.
    As for a Billion $ being earned and "their wealth, give me a break. No one can earn a Billion $. Not even military medal of honor winners who give up their lives could earn that much, and if they don't, these money-shark manipulators like John Howard sure don't. Speaking of legalized theft, that's pretty much what Howard and all his hedge fund buddies are doing. If anyone if legally stealing, it's them. So what is high taxation upon them ? It's kind of like if a pickpocket steals your wallet. You chase him down, and take your wallet full of money back from him. At that point, are you stealing his money ? No, you're taking back what was really yours to begin with. Same thing with taxation on the super rich. The workers earned it. They shouldn't have it stolen from them, just because some greed freak manipulators manage to toss big campaign contribution bucks to politicians (legal bribery) to allow them to do it.
    Take a coal mine. Dozens of workers (some who die there) receive a tiny % of what one guy who owns the mine rakes in (who never sets foot in it). Fair ? About the farthest thing from it. Proper ? Not hardly.
    My compliments on your age. I'm just one year older. Now, perhaps you can work on a little concept like "Rule of Law" or "Sanctity of Property" before you take the long journey.

    And while you may be uncomfortable with being a billionaire, it is a bit immature intellectually to wish to take this away from others, who are in fact legally earning it.

    And here is another concept you need learn, since you believe they did not actually "earn" their wealth. Remember, there are two ways to work. One can 'work hard', or 'work smart', or both. You are only concentrating on the first one, and not the second. And perhaps you fail to realize that the 'work smart' part is all about one's time, which still belongs to the individual. And time is an individual's unit of value I believe.

    And if one would throw out the right of Property, and Rule of Law, one would get perhaps what you yearn for. I, for one, prefer not to see it.
    The Political Spectrum Explained

    Actually, I'm not really Libertarian. I'm a 19th Century Jeffersonian, Acton, Liberal. I believe passionately in Individual Liberty, of course.

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    Re: Obama's Democrats in disarray over expiring tax cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by CharlieK View Post
    My compliments on your age. I'm just one year older. Now, perhaps you can work on a little concept like "Rule of Law" or "Sanctity of Property" before you take the long journey.

    And while you may be uncomfortable with being a billionaire, it is a bit immature intellectually to wish to take this away from others, who are in fact legally earning it.

    And here is another concept you need learn, since you believe they did not actually "earn" their wealth. Remember, there are two ways to work. One can 'work hard', or 'work smart', or both. You are only concentrating on the first one, and not the second. And perhaps you fail to realize that the 'work smart' part is all about one's time, which still belongs to the individual. And time is an individual's unit of value I believe.

    And if one would throw out the right of Property, and Rule of Law, one would get perhaps what you yearn for. I, for one, prefer not to see it.
    Perhaps your preference is at least a bit linked to your own degree of property ownership ? And if you had little property , and were a renter with a net worth of less than one grand, your preference then would be what ?
    As for rule of law, give us a break. You're talking about law designed of, by, and for the rich, and I reiterate > no one can earn a billion dollars (in any way), and it's debateable if they can even "earn" a few million. One things for sure. Coal miners, firefighters, cops, and the troops in Afghanistan are earning their pay, and it's sad to see how little they draw while shysters like John Howard run off with 1.5 Billion, for what ? Manipulating people and money ? Gosh, what would we ever do without guys like him ? 99% ? Better make that 99.9%. The leech would still be coming out with 1.5 Million/year. So what's he going to do ? Gold plate all his bathroom fixtures ?
    I'd rather see the money going to build spay/neuter clinics for stray cats. Seriously.
    Last edited by Protectionist; 11-27-10 at 05:22 PM.

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    Re: Obama's Democrats in disarray over expiring tax cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    You're willing to pay for them. Your premiums and the cost of care is effected by those who don't have insurance but get treatment they can't pay for. You're simply wrong factually if you think you don't pay for them.
    Obamacare will increase the cost so we will be even worse off

  4. #84
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    Re: Obama's Democrats in disarray over expiring tax cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by Protectionist View Post
    Perhaps your preference is at least a bit linked to your own degree of property ownership ? And if you had little property , and were a renter with a net worth of less than one grand, your preference then would be what ?
    As for rule of law, give us a break. You're talking about law designed of, by, and for the rich, and I reiterate > no one can earn a billion dollars (in any way), and it's debateable if they can even "earn" a few million. One things for sure. Coal miners, firefighters, cops, and the troops in Afghanistan are earning their pay, and it's sad to see how little they draw while shysters like John Howard run off with 1.5 Billion, for what ? Manipulating people and money ? Gosh, what would we ever do without guys like him ? 99% ? Better make that 99.9%. The leech would still be coming out with 1.5 Million/year. So what's he going to do ? Gold plate all his bathroom fixtures ?
    I'd rather see the money going to build spay/neuter clinics for stray cats. Seriously.
    applying one billionaire as the prototype of all those top 2% tax payers is akin to painting all black democrat politicians the same as Rangle or Cold Cash Jefferson or all white Democrats like Eliot Spitzer or Former NJ closet queen Governor McGreasey



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    Re: Obama's Democrats in disarray over expiring tax cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    applying one billionaire as the prototype of all those top 2% tax payers is akin to painting all black democrat politicians the same as Rangle or Cold Cash Jefferson or all white Democrats like Eliot Spitzer or Former NJ closet queen Governor McGreasey
    Perhaps, that's that is what you were thinking, not me. As for those with a 0ne million/year income ? To say they shoud have their taxes reduced is nothing but pure shameless GREED.
    I'd say their taxes ought to be raised significantly, especially in light of the deficit, and yes of course we need to not spend carelessly, but we need to avoid carelessness in how spending is cut as well. > Hands off Social Security except to strip it from the rich.

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    Re: Obama's Democrats in disarray over expiring tax cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by Protectionist View Post
    Perhaps, that's that is what you were thinking, not me. As for those with a 0ne million/year income ? To say they shoud have their taxes reduced is nothing but pure shameless GREED.
    I'd say their taxes ought to be raised significantly, especially in light of the deficit, and yes of course we need to not spend carelessly, but we need to avoid carelessness in how spending is cut as well. > Hands off Social Security except to strip it from the rich.
    1) the top 2% are all going to be treated the same meaning each additional dollar they get 40% will be taken out of it. be they are billionaire, a millionaire or someone with a salary over 200K a year

    2) greed is demanding this group-that pays more than half the income taxes pay more while you and your ilk continue to receive tax breaks and most likely use far more than you pay for.

    3) your hatred of the rich cries "FAILURE" rather loudly



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    Re: Obama's Democrats in disarray over expiring tax cuts

    The left is not credible. All we heard when Bush was president was the Bush tax cuts were for the rich. Now it is keep middle class tax cuts. How can it be both. Shows the lies and hypocrisy of the liberal Democrats

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    Re: Obama's Democrats in disarray over expiring tax cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by ptif219 View Post
    The left is not credible. All we heard when Bush was president was the Bush tax cuts were for the rich. Now it is keep middle class tax cuts. How can it be both. Shows the lies and hypocrisy of the liberal Democrats
    its nothing more than vote buying nonsense.



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    Re: Obama's Democrats in disarray over expiring tax cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by ptif219 View Post
    I don't have a regular doctor I avoid them unless absolutly necassary.
    I do the same thing and this is EXACTLY why Americans are unhealthier than people of other developed countries. Preventative care is vital for long life and health. We all should be seeing doctors regularly but many of us don't because it is too expensive. Sure, the co-pays aren't bad if you've got a decent plan but the only time you walk out of a doctor's office with just paying the co-pay is if nothing is wrong. If there is any chance of anything being wrong you need test done and those are very expensive. Middle class America (which is the large majority of Americans) can't afford the type of health care the Saudi royalty come over here to get but we also make too much money to qualify for Medicaid. I have a serious heart condition called cardiomyopathy. When I first got diagnosed with it several years back, many test were run and at the time I was in college so my sh***y college health insurance only paid for some of it and I was put thousands of dollars in debt which I'm still paying off. The last 6-12 months I've been having chest pains again but I'm not going to a doctor because I can't afford all of those test. I'm only working part time right now because I'm working on a masters degree right now and my wife is an independent contractor (and has lost 50% of her clients since the recession) so I'm paying for a health insurance plan out of my own pocket which has high deductibles and still only pays for a certain percentage of charges when that deductible has been reached. It is the only plan we can afford at the time, and yet, we make to much money to qualify for Medicaid.

    Making points for or against Obamacare as a solution to our current health care problems is understandable. But trying to make an argument that the American health care system is efficient in providing affordable health care for working class Americans simply because rich people from other countries come to America to get treatment, is delusional.

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    Re: Obama's Democrats in disarray over expiring tax cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by ptif219 View Post
    It appears Obama is not willing to compromise. Yet he expects others to

    Obama's Democrats in disarray over expiring tax cuts | Reuters

    With time running out and high political and economic stakes, Obama is pushing Democratic leaders to determine if they can win an acceptable extension of the cuts, which he could sign into law.

    Resurgent Republicans are demanding that all the tax cuts be renewed, including those for wealthier Americans -- individuals making more than $200,000 and families above$250,000.

    Obama favors renewing the tax cuts only for those at or below those level, saying the nation cannot afford to renew them for wealthier Americans.
    I'm just tired of having to rely on the middle-men for info on the tax-cuts. . .everything I've read on how they will affect things and who is touched by them is heavily opinionated.

    I'd like an unbiased purely informational source - and have yet to find one. Which is typical of partisan-politic issue.
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    It has happened before, but there is nothing to compare it to now.
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