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Thread: Obama's Democrats in disarray over expiring tax cuts

  1. #71
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    Re: Obama's Democrats in disarray over expiring tax cuts

    This chart..."shows" that a family of 4, who earns minimum wage, after all the entitlement/government programs are factored in has more disposable income than a similar family who earns $60K.

    let's start ripping this one down so as to be able to cut them off at the knees.

    The latest conservative talking point - Democratic Underground
    I thought this was illustrative of two things:

    1. The predictable results of the socialist state.
    2. Democrats in general.

    It dovetails perfectly with the joke I told in post #65: http://www.debatepolitics.com/breaki...post1059117431

    http://www.zerohedge.com/article/ent...ome-family-mak

    ...America is now a country which punishes those middle-class people who not only try to work hard, but avoid scamming the system...

    Almost all welfare programs have Web sites where you can call up "benefits calculators."...

    The chart is quite revealing. A one-parent family of three making $14,500 a year (minimu wage) has more disposable income than a amily making $60,000 a year.

    If the family provider works only one week a month at minimum wage, he or she makes 92 percent as much as a provider grossing $60,000 a year.


    It gets even scarier if one assumes a little dishonesty is throwin in the equation.

    If the one-week-a-month worker maintains an unreported cash-only job on the side, the deal gets better than a regular $60,000-a-year job...

    Now where it gets plainly out of control is if one throws in Supplemental Security Income.

    Best of all: being on welfare does not judge you if you are stupid enough not to take drugs all day, every day...
    ...there is no drug testing to get welfare checks.
    Isn't Eurosocialism great?

    .
    Last edited by zimmer; 11-25-10 at 07:19 AM.
    The Clintons are what happens...
    when you have NO MORAL COMPASS.

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    Re: Obama's Democrats in disarray over expiring tax cuts

    Getting back on topic, I believe that IF the Jackasses fail to reinstate the tax cuts, they will rue the day they neglected this. And the sad truth is that we are not in a recession. We are in a Depression,..right now, and just starting to come out of it.

    Only one problem here. The Progressive/Fascist congress, along with the Anti-Colonial Collectivist in the WH, have been making war against the small, and medium, businesses in the US, to the extent they are not budging financially. If they see their taxes going up again, they will further entrench. And this will cause another economic crash, just in time for the 2012 election.

    Perhaps there will be a plus here in that the Tea Party will get more followers in congress, including the Senate. Let's hope so.
    The Political Spectrum Explained

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    Re: Obama's Democrats in disarray over expiring tax cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by ptif219 View Post
    I don't have a regular doctor I avoid them unless absolutly necassary.I do have insurance if I need one. So it is my fault others can't make healthcare a priority? This is not the governments responsibility to force others to pay for your healthcare.
    You're willing to pay for them. Your premiums and the cost of care is effected by those who don't have insurance but get treatment they can't pay for. You're simply wrong factually if you think you don't pay for them.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Obama's Democrats in disarray over expiring tax cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by CharlieK View Post
    Getting back on topic, I believe that IF the Jackasses fail to reinstate the tax cuts, they will rue the day they neglected this. And the sad truth is that we are not in a recession. We are in a Depression,..right now, and just starting to come out of it.

    Only one problem here. The Progressive/Fascist congress, along with the Anti-Colonial Collectivist in the WH, have been making war against the small, and medium, businesses in the US, to the extent they are not budging financially. If they see their taxes going up again, they will further entrench. And this will cause another economic crash, just in time for the 2012 election.

    Perhaps there will be a plus here in that the Tea Party will get more followers in congress, including the Senate. Let's hope so.
    After the Great Depression of the 1930's taxes on the richest Americans went to 94% during World War II. After that prosperity reigned. In 1961, those taxes were 91% and Americans, through the 60s, had more purchasing power than we do now.
    What the government could do is raise income taxes on the richest Americans (billionaires) to 99%, while exempting small business owners. Think there isn't anyone making over a Billion $ year in salaries ? There are. Parade magazine, each year, does a cover story on Americans' incomes, with their pictures and occupations. Two years ago, the highest income shown was John Arnold, a hedge fund manager (1.5 Billion/year). This year it was the CEO of Google - sorry, I forgot his name ($2 Billion/year). If these guys were taxed at 99%, they'd still be raking in 15 and 20 million a year respectively. I'd trade places with that, 99% tax bracket and all, and so would most Americans. That would create almost 110,000 jobs at $30,000/year each. Not a solution to all the unemployment, but a good steppingstone, and especially good if you're unemployed, and you happen to be one of those 110,000 people.
    Also, the 110,000 would be high energy spenders in the stores (AKA the US economy), providing am additional boost for the economy, wheras very rich people don't spend much money (they already have everything), and what they do spend, has a very high % spent outside the United States (mostly Europe and the Caribbean), creating losses from the US economy, similar to remittances losse$ from illegal aliens.
    Last edited by Protectionist; 11-26-10 at 11:31 PM.

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    Re: Obama's Democrats in disarray over expiring tax cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by Protectionist View Post
    After the Great Depression of the 1930's taxes on the richest Americans went to 94% during World War II. After that prosperity reigned. In 1961, those taxes were 91% and Americans, through the 60s, had more purchasing power than we do now.
    What the government could do is raise income taxes on the richest Americans (billionaires) to 99%, while exempting small business owners. Think there isn't anyone making over a Billion $ year in salaries ? There are. Parade magazine, each year, does a cover story on Americans' incomes, with their pictures and occupations. Two years ago, the highest income shown was John Arnold, a hedge fund manager (1.5 Billion/year). This year it was the CEO of Google - sorry, I forgot his name ($2 Billion/year). If these guys were taxed at 99%, they'd still be raking in 15 and 20 million a year respectively. I'd trade places with that, 99% tax bracket and all, and so would most Americans. That would create almost 110,000 jobs at $30,000/year each. Not a solution to all the unemployment, but a good steppingstone, and especially good if you're unemployed, and you happen to be one of those 110,000 people.
    Also, the 110,000 would be high energy spenders in the stores (AKA the US economy), providing am additional boost for the economy, wheras very rich people don't spend much money (they already have everything), and what they do spend, has a very high % spent outside the United States (mostly Europe and the Caribbean), creating losses from the US economy, similar to remittances losse$ from illegal aliens.
    I think anyone who thinks someone should pay 99% taxes is really operating in a fantasy world

    and those billionaires would and should move out of this country

    everyone should be taxed at the same rate

    your envy is obvious



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    Re: Obama's Democrats in disarray over expiring tax cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by Protectionist View Post
    After the Great Depression of the 1930's taxes on the richest Americans went to 94% during World War II. After that prosperity reigned. In 1961, those taxes were 91% and Americans, through the 60s, had more purchasing power than we do now.
    What the government could do is raise income taxes on the richest Americans (billionaires) to 99%, while exempting small business owners. Think there isn't anyone making over a Billion $ year in salaries ? There are. Parade magazine, each year, does a cover story on Americans' incomes, with their pictures and occupations. Two years ago, the highest income shown was John Arnold, a hedge fund manager (1.5 Billion/year). This year it was the CEO of Google - sorry, I forgot his name ($2 Billion/year). If these guys were taxed at 99%, they'd still be raking in 15 and 20 million a year respectively. I'd trade places with that, 99% tax bracket and all, and so would most Americans. That would create almost 110,000 jobs at $30,000/year each. Not a solution to all the unemployment, but a good steppingstone, and especially good if you're unemployed, and you happen to be one of those 110,000 people.
    Also, the 110,000 would be high energy spenders in the stores (AKA the US economy), providing am additional boost for the economy, wheras very rich people don't spend much money (they already have everything), and what they do spend, has a very high % spent outside the United States (mostly Europe and the Caribbean), creating losses from the US economy, similar to remittances losse$ from illegal aliens.
    One thing you are overlooking, with regard to the numbers, were the high amount of tax exemptions available back then. Most of these exemptions were removed as part of the Reagan tax reduction legislation of 1983(?).Some were left, and are still there, but nothing like back then.

    So, the gist of the thing is that those percentages really didn't amount to much, because the rich had accountants, who used all those exemptions in order to circumvent all the high percentages.

    If you are pretty young you will not be aware of this, but I am in my mid-sixties and remember all this well. So, we are not dealing with apples to apples. And believe me, the wealthy, who are making their money honestly, will always find a way to keep the tax man at bay. You would find a way too if you were in that situation.

    The point you, and many others forget, is the most important point of all. THis money, if earned honestly, is their Property, and removing so much of their property is legalized theft, nothing more, and nothing less. Would you like for someone come to your home, and determine that your family owns two cars, which is one car too many, and you must therefor surrender one of your cars? You would be outraged wouldn't you? Yet many think it natural to steal property from others, simply because they have attained more than you.

    Now that is Real Selfishness, if there ever was such. After all, that is what class envy really is: selfishness.
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    Re: Obama's Democrats in disarray over expiring tax cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by CharlieK View Post
    One thing you are overlooking, with regard to the numbers, were the high amount of tax exemptions available back then. Most of these exemptions were removed as part of the Reagan tax reduction legislation of 1983(?).Some were left, and are still there, but nothing like back then.

    So, the gist of the thing is that those percentages really didn't amount to much, because the rich had accountants, who used all those exemptions in order to circumvent all the high percentages.

    If you are pretty young you will not be aware of this, but I am in my mid-sixties and remember all this well. So, we are not dealing with apples to apples. And believe me, the wealthy, who are making their money honestly, will always find a way to keep the tax man at bay. You would find a way too if you were in that situation.

    The point you, and many others forget, is the most important point of all. THis money, if earned honestly, is their Property, and removing so much of their property is legalized theft, nothing more, and nothing less. Would you like for someone come to your home, and determine that your family owns two cars, which is one car too many, and you must therefor surrender one of your cars? You would be outraged wouldn't you? Yet many think it natural to steal property from others, simply because they have attained more than you.

    Now that is Real Selfishness, if there ever was such. After all, that is what class envy really is: selfishness.
    I am 65 years old, I remember the 60's, the 50's, and even the 40's a little bit. Sure there were exemptions, and I stated that business owners could be exempt. As for the rich finding loopholes, sure they do, and that's what we're paying government officials for. To close those loopholes as soon as they find them. It's a cat & mouse game, but the rich win totally if you just don't engage, and then lose by default.
    As for me, no, I wouldn't be comfortable sucking in a Billion/year. I'd know there's no way I could have earned that much, and I'd be depriving others (those employed in my company working for much less). My soul is a lot more valuable than excess wealth, which I would have no way of making use of anyway. How do you spend a Billion dollars ? More than 40 of the nation's millionaires have joined Patriotic Millionaires for Fiscal Strength, including Warren Buffet, to ask President Obama to discontinue the tax breaks established for them during the Bush administration.
    As for a Billion $ being earned and "their wealth, give me a break. No one can earn a Billion $. Not even military medal of honor winners who give up their lives could earn that much, and if they don't, these money-shark manipulators like John Howard sure don't. Speaking of legalized theft, that's pretty much what Howard and all his hedge fund buddies are doing. If anyone if legally stealing, it's them. So what is high taxation upon them ? It's kind of like if a pickpocket steals your wallet. You chase him down, and take your wallet full of money back from him. At that point, are you stealing his money ? No, you're taking back what was really yours to begin with. Same thing with taxation on the super rich. The workers earned it. They shouldn't have it stolen from them, just because some greed freak manipulators manage to toss big campaign contribution bucks to politicians (legal bribery) to allow them to do it.
    Take a coal mine. Dozens of workers (some who die there) receive a tiny % of what one guy who owns the mine rakes in (who never sets foot in it). Fair ? About the farthest thing from it. Proper ? Not hardly.
    Last edited by Protectionist; 11-27-10 at 09:00 AM.

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    Re: Obama's Democrats in disarray over expiring tax cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by Protectionist View Post
    I am 65 years old, I remember the 60's, the 50's, and even the 40's a little bit. Sure there were exemptions, and I stated that business owners could be exempt. As for the rich finding loopholes, sure they do, and that's what we're paying government officials for. To close those loopholes as soon as they find them. It's a cat & mouse game, but the rich win totally if you just don't engage, and then lose by default.
    As for me, no, I wouldn't be comfortable sucking in a Billion/year. I'd know there's no way I could have earned that much, and I'd be depriving others (those employed in my company working for much less). My soul is a lot more valuable than excess wealth, which I would have no way of making use of anyway. How do you spend a Billion dollars ? More than 40 of the nation's millionaires have joined Patriotic Millionaires for Fiscal Strength, including Warren Buffet, to ask President Obama to discontinue the tax breaks established for them during the Bush administration.
    As for a Billion $ being earned and "their wealth, give me a break. No one can earn a Billion $. Not even military medal of honor winners who give up their lives could earn that much, and if they don't, these money-shark manipulators like John Howard sure don't. Speaking of legalized theft, that's pretty much what Howard and all his hedge fund buddies are doing. If anyone if legally stealing, it's them. So what is high taxation upon them ? It's kind of like if a pickpocket steals your wallet. You chase him down, and take your wallet full of money back from him. At that point, are you stealing his money ? No, you're taking back what was really yours to begin with. Same thing with taxation on the super rich. The workers earned it. They shouldn't have it stolen from them, just because some greed freak manipulators manage to toss big campaign contribution bucks to politicians (legal bribery) to allow them to do it.
    Take a coal mine. Dozens of workers (some who die there) receive a tiny % of what one guy who owns the mine rakes in (who never sets foot in it). Fair ? About the farthest thing from it. Proper ? Not hardly.
    why do the parasite advocates talk about billionaires but target those making 200K-to a couple million with their schemes?



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    Re: Obama's Democrats in disarray over expiring tax cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    why do the parasite advocates talk about billionaires but target those making 200K-to a couple million with their schemes?
    Why do the parasite advocates (ie. parasites upon the working class) talk about harm being done to the US economy, but don't mention the harm they impose on it, by hiring illegal aliens who extract tens of Billion$ from the US economy in remittances, + tens of Billion$ more in welfare payouts, via the anchor baby racket and use of false IDs ?

    To fairly answer your question though, I hadn't heard of any top ceiling ("couple million") regarding Obama's tax plan. Last I heard, it didn't have any ceiling. As far as those making 250K and up, I haven't seen much sympathy coming to me from them, when I was earning $9.82/hour (not so long ago).
    Last edited by Protectionist; 11-27-10 at 11:22 AM.

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    Re: Obama's Democrats in disarray over expiring tax cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by Protectionist View Post
    Why do the parasite advocates (ie. parasites upon the working class) harm being done to the US economy but don't mention the harm they impose on it, by hiring illegal aliens who extract tens of Billion$ from the US economy in remittances + tens of Billion$ more in welfare payouts via the anchor baby racket and use of false IDs ?

    To fairly answer your question though, I hadn't heard of any top ceiling ("couple million") regarding Obama's tax plan. Last I heard, it didn't have any ceiling. As far as those making 250K and up, I haven't seen much sympathy coming to me from them, when I was earning $9.82/hour (not so long ago).
    more apples and oranges. envy permeates your posts as well. hiring illegals is not part of this issue I oppose the "anchor baby bit"



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