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Thread: Obama's Democrats in disarray over expiring tax cuts

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    Re: Obama's Democrats in disarray over expiring tax cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by zip98053 View Post
    It doesn't change the legal system. However, it does encourage health. Just like my medical plan at work. They are starting to spend on preventative medicine. Get everyone on insurance, then the insurance people will be encouraged to keep people healthy. There are protections in Obamacare to make sure that the insurance companies do not get to sacrifice people's health for the profit of the insurance companies. It would be leas of a problem if there was a single-payer system or even a public option so that we did not have to so closely monitor the insurance folks.

    Obamacare does a lot to re-balance the financial equation to emphasize health and not health care. Keeping people healthy is much less expensive than caring for them when they are sick.

    On the negative side, there's all those extra years of social security that they will be collecting.
    You just said our system doesn't do that. Now you say it does. Insurance is part of the system. More double talk

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    Re: Obama's Democrats in disarray over expiring tax cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by ptif219 View Post
    Obama has never compromised in fact he has a habit of shutting out the GOP
    And as evidence you offer...?

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    Re: Obama's Democrats in disarray over expiring tax cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by zip98053 View Post
    And as evidence you offer...?
    Cantor says Obama shut out GOP on health care | Richmond Times-Dispatch

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    Re: Obama's Democrats in disarray over expiring tax cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by ptif219 View Post
    You just said our system doesn't do that. Now you say it does. Insurance is part of the system. More double talk
    OK, I'll type slower. The current system does not try to encourage health. The system that is the basis of Obamacare tries to do do more to encourage health over health care. Private insurance and no public option was an attempt at compromise with the uncompromising Republicans. We would be better off having a public option. That comes on the next improvement to the health care system that was started with the Obamacare system.

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    Re: Obama's Democrats in disarray over expiring tax cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Really? Have you seen the overwhelming lines at the free care given in Los Angeles and elsewhere?
    Yeah, makes you wonder why people want to inflict "free" healthcare on the rest of us.

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    Re: Obama's Democrats in disarray over expiring tax cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by zip98053 View Post
    OK, I'll type slower. The current system does not try to encourage health. The system that is the basis of Obamacare tries to do do more to encourage health over health care. Private insurance and no public option was an attempt at compromise with the uncompromising Republicans. We would be better off having a public option. That comes on the next improvement to the health care system that was started with the Obamacare system.
    Wrong. Insurance companies have been doing it for several years. Doctors encourage good diets. What doctor do you know that promotes lifestyles that are unhealthy?

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    Re: Obama's Democrats in disarray over expiring tax cuts

    You offer the opinion of a Republican congressman as evidence that Obama was not compromising? Seriously?

    The Republicans came to Obama and demand that he dump this health care nonsense. Obama says "no." Republicans then say that Obama was not willing to work with us. What crap. The Democrats bent over backward to accommodate the Republicans and they still all voted no. When Republicans are adamantine about their demands, they can't then turn around and claim that the other side is not compromising. But, that doesn't keep them from doing it anyway. It's always the fault of the Democrats. Bulls--t!

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    Re: Obama's Democrats in disarray over expiring tax cuts

    Obama had closed door meetings with dems no GOP allowed

    Obama says closed-door meetings on health care were a mistake - Wednesday, Feb. 3, 2010

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    Re: Obama's Democrats in disarray over expiring tax cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post


    You spend more then any other country on Health Care, and get worse results...
    The reason for our lower relative life expectancy and high costs has little to do with the quality of healthcare (which is excellent), and EVERYTHING to do with an overabundance of lard asses who live off of Doritos and Diet Coke.

    It's quite simple... people who are fat die early, and we've got lots of fat people.

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    Re: Obama's Democrats in disarray over expiring tax cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by ptif219 View Post
    Wrong. Insurance companies have been doing it for several years. Doctors encourage good diets. What doctor do you know that promotes lifestyles that are unhealthy?
    You may have a nice relationship with your primary care provider. Not everyone has a primary care provider. Those people should be so lucky as to have someone to tell them how to care for their health. That is what the Obamacare system is intended to provide.

    I have had dealings with doctors who were more interested in how soon they could get me under the knife than they we interested in finding non-surgical alternatives. But that is not the point. Having everyone get access to doctors that are interested in keeping people healthy is the goal. While your personal physician may have an interest in your well being, I don't think that the same is true of your local hospital. Their goal is to make money (profits) as a result of people being sick. When you come in the door of a hospital, they are not wanting to get you on your way as fast as possible. They are looking at the insurance metrics for how much they can make off of someone who has whatever you have.

    A simple example of the kind of thing that we should have for everyone -- flu shots. If everyone had access to flu shots, the cost to the economy of the flu would be reduced. Having access to flu shots does not mean knowing where the local Wal Mart is where they are giving flu shots if you can pay for it. If means that everyone who wants a flu shot can get a flu shot. What happens in the current system, is that people who can't afford the shots don't get them and then they get the flu. They then go to the emergency room of some hospital for treatment. Since these people can't pay for the medical care, it gets transfered to "the system" and it is much higher than it would be if we had given them the flu shot in the first place.

    But, as usual, I'm wandering. The system is not optimal. It is not even close to reasonable, much less optimal.

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