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Thread: Obama's Democrats in disarray over expiring tax cuts

  1. #381
    Advisor shades's Avatar
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    Re: Obama's Democrats in disarray over expiring tax cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Much of that has to do with dealing with the dishonest lies from people like Palin (lie of the year stuff) thatled us to make concessions and even adopt republican ideas (the mandate). That's what sometimes happens when congress decides not to solve a problem, but to use an issue to distort and influence votes. Shame on congress. Shame on people like Palin and Beck and Oberman.
    so it's Palin, Becks, and Obermans fault? that what exactly?
    we depend on their misinformation? because we are too stupid to read whats in the bill and decide for ourselves?

    so lets get to the nuts and bolts of this "reform" you are proud to have at least taken a "step forward" in fixing the broken system.

    it's going to help those of us, who are paying outrageous premiums for private health care how?
    And I will take an answer referring to immediatly or eventually

    But I will go first if youd like
    on the negative impact on those of us paying outrageous premiums for private health care.
    we will now be paying to subsidize those who cant afford it, and or have found a way to make it look like they cant,
    in addition to paying outrageously high premiums for our own private health care.

    your turn

  2. #382
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    Re: Obama's Democrats in disarray over expiring tax cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by shades View Post
    so it's Palin, Becks, and Obermans fault? that what exactly?
    we depend on their misinformation? because we are too stupid to read whats in the bill and decide for ourselves?

    so lets get to the nuts and bolts of this "reform" you are proud to have at least taken a "step forward" in fixing the broken system.

    it's going to help those of us, who are paying outrageous premiums for private health care how?
    And I will take an answer referring to immediatly or eventually

    But I will go first if youd like
    on the negative impact on those of us paying outrageous premiums for private health care.
    we will now be paying to subsidize those who cant afford it, and or have found a way to make it look like they cant,
    in addition to paying outrageously high premiums for our own private health care.

    your turn
    They (Beck, Plain, and others) contribute to the misinformation so prevelent today. To pretend otherwise is dishonest.

    As for outrageous premiums. My premium doubled nearly three years ago now, and they cut benefits. Was that the fault of healthcare reform? Before reform we were losing benefits across this country and paying more for them. So, with reform we get more. Is it better to pay more for more, or to more fior less?

    I don't pretend this is perfect. I'm one of the 1/3 in exit polling who would say the reform didn't go far enough. I would have been much happier with a public option, and even happier with a universal payer. But you can't begin to fix a problem by doing nothing and letting the dishonest voices win the day.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  3. #383
    Advisor shades's Avatar
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    Re: Obama's Democrats in disarray over expiring tax cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    They (Beck, Plain, and others) contribute to the misinformation so prevelent today. To pretend otherwise is dishonest.

    As for outrageous premiums. My premium doubled nearly three years ago now, and they cut benefits. Was that the fault of healthcare reform? Before reform we were losing benefits across this country and paying more for them. So, with reform we get more. Is it better to pay more for more, or to more fior less?

    I don't pretend this is perfect. I'm one of the 1/3 in exit polling who would say the reform didn't go far enough. I would have been much happier with a public option, and even happier with a universal payer. But you can't begin to fix a problem by doing nothing and letting the dishonest voices win the day.
    so we are on the same team then, in a way.
    I agree it's broken, our premiums are more and we get less. And forget dental, its not even worth having anymore.
    Universal health care (single payer) is different than this phony thing, I agree.

    if the government wants to run health care, and we all get it for a fair percentage of our wages, I dont mind paying more than the clerk at the grocery store.
    for the same coverage.
    My problem is strictly with the thought, and high probability that this could be just another social program.
    With increasing numbers of people not playing fair these days its a recipe for disaster.

    And I also agree that maybe doing something will at least get the ball rolling.
    But I dont see the good start that you see, thats all I'm saying my friend.

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    Re: Obama's Democrats in disarray over expiring tax cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by shades View Post
    so we are on the same team then, in a way.
    I agree it's broken, our premiums are more and we get less. And forget dental, its not even worth having anymore.
    Universal health care (single payer) is different than this phony thing, I agree.

    if the government wants to run health care, and we all get it for a fair percentage of our wages, I dont mind paying more than the clerk at the grocery store.
    for the same coverage.
    My problem is strictly with the thought, and high probability that this could be just another social program.
    With increasing numbers of people not playing fair these days its a recipe for disaster.

    And I also agree that maybe doing something will at least get the ball rolling.
    But I dont see the good start that you see, thats all I'm saying my friend.
    What really is at display here is liberal arrogance. No matter how many failures there have been for liberal social programs and the trillions spent, no problems have been solved as the programs cost more each and every year, and never go away.

    Why such belief in the govt. solving an individual responsibility? Boo has yet to answer that question. We have 310 million individuals in this country and the government's one size fits all has yet to solve anyone's own personal issues.

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    Re: Obama's Democrats in disarray over expiring tax cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    What really is at display here is liberal arrogance. No matter how many failures there have been for liberal social programs and the trillions spent, no problems have been solved as the programs cost more each and every year, and never go away.

    Why such belief in the govt. solving an individual responsibility? Boo has yet to answer that question. We have 310 million individuals in this country and the government's one size fits all has yet to solve anyone's own personal issues.
    I agree with the last sentence and liberal programs don't work. However, universal healthcare is not something that should be abandoned or thrown aside. We could save money while having universal healthcare if you just spend back on military spending. The majority of the money is going into just that. But liberals and conservatives fail to address this issue at all. We should focus on benefits for the people, not killing others in different countries.

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    Re: Obama's Democrats in disarray over expiring tax cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by WeAreReborn View Post
    I agree with the last sentence and liberal programs don't work. However, universal healthcare is not something that should be abandoned or thrown aside. We could save money while having universal healthcare if you just spend back on military spending. The majority of the money is going into just that. But liberals and conservatives fail to address this issue at all. We should focus on benefits for the people, not killing others in different countries.
    Healthcare is an individual responsibility not a Federal Responsibility. States and the local communities are the place where these issues should be addressed not the national stage. If you want govt. help in providing healthcare then look to the individual state or local governments, not the Federal Taxpayer.

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    Re: Obama's Democrats in disarray over expiring tax cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    with reform we get more
    from politico above, yesterday:

    Medicaid exists to give low-income families, especially low-income mothers and their children, access to health care. But for millions of Americans, Medicaid is an illusion. It is the appearance of coverage — without the power of access. The program is administered by states and funded jointly by states and the federal government. And it is bankrupting both, along with physicians and hospitals.

    Last year, the federal government spent $251 billion on Medicaid. Washington’s Medicaid tab is expected to rise to $458 billion by 2019, according to the Congressional Budget Office. For state governments, most of which must balance their budgets annually, Medicaid’s escalating growth is ruinous. Responding to rising costs and budgetary pressures, 48 states were forced to adopt “at least one new policy” to restrict their ballooning Medicaid costs in 2010, according to the Kaiser Family Foundation.

    Twenty states adopted Medicaid benefit restrictions, and 14 signaled intent to cut benefits next year. Thirty-nine states imposed a provider rate cut or freeze this year, and 37 plan to do so in 2011 — despite the fact that Medicaid pays providers significantly less than any other insurer and frequently less than cost.

    Consequently, patients suffer. In a March 15, 2010, article titled “As Medicaid Payments Shrink, Patients Are Abandoned,” The New York Times chronicled the experiences of several patients whose Medicaid coverage would not cover needed care. One was Carol Y. Vliet, who could not find a doctor to treat her metastatic cancer after Michigan imposed yet another round of Medicaid provider payment cuts. Vliet died seven days after the article appeared. Cases like Vliet’s are now all too common among Medicaid patients. A recent study of surgical outcomes found that patients are roughly as well off having Medicaid as they are having no health insurance, and “Medicaid payer status was associated with the longest length of stay and highest total costs” of any payer source.

    All this is before the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act, which would put 16 million more Americans on Medicaid. Once the new law is fully in effect, roughly one in five Americans will carry a Medicaid card. But the combination of rapid beneficiary growth with benefit and provider cuts threatens to render their cards useless.

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    Re: Obama's Democrats in disarray over expiring tax cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by shades View Post
    so it's Palin, Becks, and Obermans fault? that what exactly?
    report the news with interpretation. which he's totally against, unless it's Stewart. then it's okay (and even beneficial!) because Stewart is so hip, and liberal, and cool, and deep and stuff.

    we depend on their misinformation? because we are too stupid to read whats in the bill and decide for ourselves?
    well, one of those three names constantly tells their audience to check them by referencing the original sources...

    so lets get to the nuts and bolts of this "reform" you are proud to have at least taken a "step forward" in fixing the broken system.

    it's going to help those of us, who are paying outrageous premiums for private health care how?
    it's going to let us pay more, and maybe even let us escape from employer-provided health insurance when they drop our plans! in the meantime, it will also reduce available healthcare resources, so we will be getting much, much less at a price of much, much more.

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    Re: Obama's Democrats in disarray over expiring tax cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Healthcare is an individual responsibility not a Federal Responsibility. States and the local communities are the place where these issues should be addressed not the national stage. If you want govt. help in providing healthcare then look to the individual state or local governments, not the Federal Taxpayer.
    Why have a federal government then? IF they are there they might as well do something useful instead of attempting to police the world. That is what is killing federal tax payers. So as long as there is a federal government, I see no reason why they should not guarantee healthcare.

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    Re: Obama's Democrats in disarray over expiring tax cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by WeAreReborn View Post
    Why have a federal government then? IF they are there they might as well do something useful instead of attempting to police the world. That is what is killing federal tax payers. So as long as there is a federal government, I see no reason why they should not guarantee healthcare.
    To protect us from our enemies. Please familarize yourself with the Federal Budget. Here are the budget items, over 60% of it is entitlement spending and less than 20% of the budget is defense.

    Expenses

    Defense
    International Affairs
    Gen. Science, Space
    Energy
    Natural resources/env
    Agriculture
    Commerce
    Transportation
    Community Dev
    Education/Train/Social
    Health
    Medicare
    Income Security
    Social Security
    Veterans Benefits
    Justice
    General Govt.
    Net Interest


    As for healthcare, why should you pay for my healthcare? I never learned that growing up. If I abuse my body by smoking, over eating, taking drugs, is that your responsibility? Why do you think a bureaucrat in D.C. is the answer to your problems? That never was the intent of our founders.

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