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Thread: 2,000 fetuses found at Thai Buddhist temple

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    Re: 2,000 fetuses found at Thai Buddhist temple

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    And people like you want to impose your belief that a fetus has no right to life upon the unborn,
    That is false. If the fetus wants to debate its rights it's more than welcomed to hop out of the womb and talk to me. Until then, I have no reason to believe it has rights to begin with. I support the politically neutral action. If people want to believe their fetus has rights. Well great for them. I wouldn't force them to get an abortion. If they don't want to believe a fetus has any rights, soul etc, I wouldn't stop them from getting one. Imposing beliefs on somebody would mean they'd be forced to do something. I honestly don't care what a person does as long as they have the option to do it.
    Last edited by Hatuey; 11-19-10 at 02:54 PM.
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    Re: 2,000 fetuses found at Thai Buddhist temple

    overturning RVW is going to make it a state issue then. I thought the people on the internet knew so much

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    Re: 2,000 fetuses found at Thai Buddhist temple

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    This is false. If you want to believe the fetus has a right to life. That's great. However don't force that belief on myself. I support the politically neutral option. Letting people decide for themselves what it is they want to do with a fetus.
    Do you or do you not believe that a fetus has a right to life? Does your opinion not force that a fetus has no right to life and should only be allowed to live if its mother choses to continue her pregnancy? Letting people "decide for themselves" is revoking the fetus' right to life in that their rights lie with the mother and they have no rights of their own.
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    Re: 2,000 fetuses found at Thai Buddhist temple

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    Do you or do you not believe that a fetus has a right to life?
    No. I believe it doesn't have any rights.

    Does your opinion not force that a fetus has no right to life and should only be allowed to live if its mother choses to continue her pregnancy?Letting people "decide for themselves" is revoking the fetus' right to life in that their rights lie with the mother and they have no rights of their own.
    It's only revoking if you believe the fetus has rights to begin with. Why don't you stop with the false dichotomies already? If a woman doesn't believe her fetus has any rights, she can't possibly believe she's revoking any rights by aborting the fetus. It's simply illogical. You are projecting your belief that fetuses indeed have rights regardless of what another person believes.
    Last edited by Hatuey; 11-19-10 at 02:58 PM.
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    Re: 2,000 fetuses found at Thai Buddhist temple

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    No. I know it doesn't have any.
    So then you admit that you force your opinion on everyone that fetal life does not deserve protection?
    This is a false dichotomy. If the fetus has no rights than I can't possibly be forcing the fetus to do anything.
    You are forcing it to die without justice. I said your opinion forces on everyone the opinion that a fetus has no right to life and it should only live if the woman deems it not an inconvenience and warranting carrying out her pregnancy.
    It's only revoking if you believe the fetus has rights to begin with. Why don't you stop with the false dichotomies already? If a woman doesn't believe her fetus has any rights, she can't possibly believe she's revoking any rights to begin with. It's simply illogical.
    I do believe that the fetus has rights to begin with... Read my sentences. I believe that a fetus has the right to life, and thus in my beliefs a woman incorrectly and wrongfully revokes that right under the guise of "it's my choice."
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    Re: 2,000 fetuses found at Thai Buddhist temple

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    So then you admit that you force your opinion on everyone that fetal life does not deserve protection?
    You're rehashing the same false statement again. Forcing my beliefs on others would mean I'd force them to do something they do not want to do. The opposite is what I am stating. A person should be allowed to make their own decision on abortion, not one based on my opinions or yours. If you want to believe an abortion is murder, by all means. If you want to forbid those who you are related to from getting one and they allow you? By all means. However when your beliefs impose on mine, then that restricts me from making the choice for myself.

    You are forcing it to die without justice.
    More false dichotomies. Forcing it to do die without justice would mean believing that a fetus is 'entitled' to justice to begin with. If I do not belief a fetus enjoys rights, virtues etc. Why would I believe I am denying it justice to begin with?

    I said your opinion forces on everyone the opinion that a fetus has no right to life and it should only live if the woman deems it not an inconvenience and warranting carrying out her pregnancy.
    And this is in fact the opposite of what my argument actually means.

    I do believe that the fetus has rights to begin with...
    And I do not. So unless you have a claim to some demonstrable higher truth, I welcome you to keep believing that as long as it doesn't impose on my beliefs or those of others.

    Read my sentences. I believe that a fetus has the right to life, and thus in my beliefs a woman incorrectly and wrongfully revokes that right under the guise of "it's my choice."
    That's great. But it's still only a belief. Your problem is that you do not understand what the implications of a belief are. If I believe a fetus does not have a right to virtues, jutice, rights etc. It does not logically follow that I somehow will believe that I am negating any virtues, justice, rights etc. In fact the opposite is true. To me an abortion is the result of a concious choice made by an individual to remove that which is unwanted. A birth is the opposite. It is the conscious choice to keep a wanted fetus. One choice is grounded in the belief that fetuses have rights and deserve 'justice'. The other is grounded in the belief that it does not have these rights at all. My stance on this assures the choice is available to both opinions.
    Last edited by Hatuey; 11-19-10 at 03:15 PM.
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    Re: 2,000 fetuses found at Thai Buddhist temple

    The funny part is, of course, no one has any way of really knowing when "life" begins.
    The Makeout Hobo is real, and does indeed travel around the country in his van and make out with ladies... If you meet the Makeout Hobo, it is customary to greet him with a shot of whiskey and a high five (if you are a dude) or passionate makeouts (if you are a lady).

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    Re: 2,000 fetuses found at Thai Buddhist temple

    Quote Originally Posted by the makeout hobo View Post
    The funny part is, of course, no one has any way of really knowing when "life" begins.
    well sperm is life. so is the egg. so really we do know when life begins. we just are confused how to define it.

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    Re: 2,000 fetuses found at Thai Buddhist temple

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    The problem is that most people simply don't see the root causes of abortion. They think people who get abortion are simply trying to avoid responsibility. To an extent that is true but let's just say for one second that all of these people 'assumed responsibility' and a baby was born 9 months later. Then what? The overwhelming majority of women who get abortions live in poverty. That extra mouth to feed would mean A) an extra mouth for the government to feed or B) an extra mouth that would go hungry. What happens then is that a sizable percentage of the pro-life groups are also small government conservatives. So you have a group who is A) advocating for forcing the poorest percentage of America to reproduce and B) advocating so that the very social programs they rely on are also cut. Add to that the fact that even if the economy was in full boom there simply wouldn't be enough jobs to support an extra 20-30 million individuals and its a socioeconomic dichotomy if I've ever seen one.
    Oh, please. Last time I checked the poor folk were breeding like mice. More of da welfare, ya know.. At least in Western society that is. It has been my experiecne that most abortions in the US are from the middle to upper classes.


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    Re: 2,000 fetuses found at Thai Buddhist temple

    I wonder how long before this thread is moved to where it belongs.
    The haggardness of poverty is everywhere seen contrasted with the sleekness of wealth, the exhorted labor of some compensating for the idleness of others, wretched hovels by the side of stately colonnades, the rags of indigence blended with the ensigns of opulence; in a word, the most useless profusion in the midst of the most urgent wants.Jean-Baptiste Say

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