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House GOP blocks bill to extend jobless benefits

apdst said:
How many oilfield jobs did Obama kill, when he lied about the recommendtions of his commission? How did intentionally killing jobs, introducing more higher taxes on businesses, spending more than a trillion dollars on shovel ready projects--that didn't exist--has helped end the recession?
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You must be kidding. The damage had already been done before he even took office. By the way Bush's recession is over.

More than a trillion dollars on shovel ready projects? Where do you get your information? The stimulus was 800 billion and much of that was in the form of tax breaks credits and tax rebates and much of the stimulus hasn't been spent yet.

http://www.propublica.org/special/the-stimulus-plan-a-detailed-list-of-spending
 
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USA-1 said:
You must be kidding. The damage had already been done before he even took office. By the way Bush's recession is over.

More than a trillion dollars on shovel ready projects? Where do you get your information? The stimulus was 800 billion and much of that was in the form of tax breaks credits and tax rebates and much of the stimulus hasn't been spent yet.

The Stimulus Plan: A Detailed List of Spending - ProPublica
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Ok, tell us, exactly, which of Bush's policies caused the recession.

And, if the Bush recession is over, whose recession are we currently in? :rofl
 
USA-1 said:
You must be kidding. The damage had already been done before he even took office. By the way Bush's recession is over.

More than a trillion dollars on shovel ready projects? Where do you get your information? The stimulus was 800 billion and much of that was in the form of tax breaks credits and tax rebates and much of the stimulus hasn't been spent yet.

The Stimulus Plan: A Detailed List of Spending - ProPublica
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Here are your so called Obama tax cuts?

Obama Tax cuts

Total: $288 billion

Tax cuts for individuals

Total: $237 billion
• $116 billion: New payroll tax credit of $400 per worker and $800 per couple in 2009 and 2010. Phaseout begins at $75,000 for individuals and $150,000 for joint filers.[29]
• $70 billion: Alternative minimum tax: a one year increase in AMT floor to $70,950 for joint filers for 2009.[29]
• $15 billion: Expansion of child tax credit: A $1,000 credit to more families (even those that do not make enough money to pay income taxes).
• $14 billion: Expanded college credit to provide a $2,500 expanded tax credit for college tuition and related expenses for 2009 and 2010. The credit is phased out for couples making more than $160,000.
• $6.6 billion: Homebuyer credit: $8,000 refundable credit for all homes bought between 1/1/2009 and 12/1/2009 and repayment provision repealed for homes purchased in 2009 and held more than three years. This only applies to first-time homebuyers.[41]
• $4.7 billion: Excluding from taxation the first $2,400 a person receives in unemployment compensation benefits in 2009.
• $4.7 billion: Expanded earned income tax credit to increase the earned income tax credit — which provides money to low income workers — for families with at least three children.
• $4.3 billion: Home energy credit to provide an expanded credit to homeowners who make their homes more energy-efficient in 2009 and 2010. Homeowners could recoup 30 percent of the cost up to $1,500 of numerous projects, such as installing energy-efficient windows, doors, furnaces and air conditioners.
• $1.7 billion: for deduction of sales tax from car purchases, not interest payments phased out for incomes above $250,000.

How did any of this help the private sector and why selective tax cuts to individuals who don't pay any taxes? Here is a tax cut that worked


Bush Tax cuts
Between 2001 and 2003, the Bush administration instituted a federal tax cut for all taxpayers. Among other changes, the lowest income tax rate was lowered from 15% to 10%, the 27% rate went to 25%, the 30% rate went to 28%, the 35% rate went to 33%, and the top marginal tax rate went from 39.6% to 35%.[3] In addition, the child tax credit went from $500 to $1000, and the "marriage penalty" was reduced. Since the cuts were implemented as part of the annual congressional budget resolution, which protected the bill from filibusters, numerous amendments, and more than 20 hours of debate, it had to include a sunset clause. Unless congress passes legislation making the tax cuts permanent, they will expire in 2011.

Receipt 2009 2008 2007 2005 2004 2003 2002

Individual Income tax 915.3 1,145.7 1,043.9 927.2 808.9 793.7 858.3
Corporate Taxes 138.2 304.3 353.9 278.3 189.4 131.8 148.0

Total 1053.5 1,450.0 1,397.8 1205.5 998.3 925.5 1006.3

Did you happen to see the election results on Nov. 2? Doesn't seem that the majority in this country realize how great Obama is.

Obama was left 350 billion of TARP and spent only 150 billion of it, so 842 billion stimulus plus 150 billion in TARP totals right at 1 trillion dollars and what do we have to show for it, 4 million more unemployed since the stimulus was signed and 3 trillion added to the debt. Guess that is a liberal succes story

Employment, Hours, and Earnings from the Current Employment Statistics survey (National)
 
Conservative said:
Here are your so called Obama tax cuts?

Obama Tax cuts

Total: $288 billion

Tax cuts for individuals

Total: $237 billion
• $116 billion: New payroll tax credit of $400 per worker and $800 per couple in 2009 and 2010. Phaseout begins at $75,000 for individuals and $150,000 for joint filers.[29]
• $70 billion: Alternative minimum tax: a one year increase in AMT floor to $70,950 for joint filers for 2009.[29]
• $15 billion: Expansion of child tax credit: A $1,000 credit to more families (even those that do not make enough money to pay income taxes).
• $14 billion: Expanded college credit to provide a $2,500 expanded tax credit for college tuition and related expenses for 2009 and 2010. The credit is phased out for couples making more than $160,000.
• $6.6 billion: Homebuyer credit: $8,000 refundable credit for all homes bought between 1/1/2009 and 12/1/2009 and repayment provision repealed for homes purchased in 2009 and held more than three years. This only applies to first-time homebuyers.[41]
• $4.7 billion: Excluding from taxation the first $2,400 a person receives in unemployment compensation benefits in 2009.
• $4.7 billion: Expanded earned income tax credit to increase the earned income tax credit — which provides money to low income workers — for families with at least three children.
• $4.3 billion: Home energy credit to provide an expanded credit to homeowners who make their homes more energy-efficient in 2009 and 2010. Homeowners could recoup 30 percent of the cost up to $1,500 of numerous projects, such as installing energy-efficient windows, doors, furnaces and air conditioners.
• $1.7 billion: for deduction of sales tax from car purchases, not interest payments phased out for incomes above $250,000.

How did any of this help the private sector and why selective tax cuts to individuals who don't pay any taxes? Here is a tax cut that worked


Bush Tax cuts
Between 2001 and 2003, the Bush administration instituted a federal tax cut for all taxpayers. Among other changes, the lowest income tax rate was lowered from 15% to 10%, the 27% rate went to 25%, the 30% rate went to 28%, the 35% rate went to 33%, and the top marginal tax rate went from 39.6% to 35%.[3] In addition, the child tax credit went from $500 to $1000, and the "marriage penalty" was reduced. Since the cuts were implemented as part of the annual congressional budget resolution, which protected the bill from filibusters, numerous amendments, and more than 20 hours of debate, it had to include a sunset clause. Unless congress passes legislation making the tax cuts permanent, they will expire in 2011.

Receipt 2009 2008 2007 2005 2004 2003 2002

Individual Income tax 915.3 1,145.7 1,043.9 927.2 808.9 793.7 858.3
Corporate Taxes 138.2 304.3 353.9 278.3 189.4 131.8 148.0

Total 1053.5 1,450.0 1,397.8 1205.5 998.3 925.5 1006.3

Did you happen to see the election results on Nov. 2? Doesn't seem that the majority in this country realize how great Obama is.

Obama was left 350 billion of TARP and spent only 150 billion of it, so 842 billion stimulus plus 150 billion in TARP totals right at 1 trillion dollars and what do we have to show for it, 4 million more unemployed since the stimulus was signed and 3 trillion added to the debt. Guess that is a liberal succes story

Employment, Hours, and Earnings from the Current Employment Statistics survey (National)
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Gee! And no tax cuts for corporations. How 'bout that?
 
apdst said:
Gee! And no tax cuts for corporations. How 'bout that?
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Why would a liberal allow any private industry to keep more of what they earn as they don't spend it right according to liberals and after all those evil corporations just hire people?
 
apdst said:
If the government would get the hell out of the way, those numbers would flip-flop.
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Please explain how that works..... Do you honestly believe we have a recession because the government is in the way? If so, what specific things should happen to end the recesiion?
 
It's like the fundamental truth that market economies boom and bust stopped existing.
 
SE102 said:
It's like the fundamental truth that market economies boom and bust stopped existing.
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How about answering the question, how long should the taxpayer fund people who are unemployed?
 
upsideguy said:
Please explain how that works..... Do you honestly believe we have a recession because the government is in the way? If so, what specific things should happen to end the recesiion?
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The government has created uncertainty in the private sector, with new tax laws and new money robbing legislation. This needs to end and the legislation that has been passed, so far, needs to be repealed.
 
haymarket said:
Ebenezer Scrooge would be proud. I first heard this on Thom Hartmann's radio show. It is sad that Republicans would get behind this while advocating hundreds of billions in tax breaks for the upper 2%.
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yeah as long as one person needs something its wrong for the top 2% to have more money?

where do you get the idea that existing within a certain distance of me justifies me having to pay for what you think you need?

If someone is unemployed I don't have a duty to constantly fund his existence.
 
Deuce said:
There are a lot more unemployed than there are job openings. What do you think the others should do? Rob a bank?
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I cannot answer that but the worst possible choice is blaming the rich and calling for more tax hikes on them
 
TurtleDude said:
I cannot answer that but the worst possible choice is blaming the rich and calling for more tax hikes on them
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You are right, the rich have suffered enough.
 
apdst said:
The government has created uncertainty in the private sector, with new tax laws and new money robbing legislation. This needs to end and the legislation that has been passed, so far, needs to be repealed.
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Sorry, tax policies are no better than a tertiary consideration in a business investment decision..... If the demand is there, the investment is made. A slow economy means no demand. Capital sits on the sidelines as long as doubts about demand are high.

I am a small business owner. I made a big bet in this economy solely on the perception that there is a demand for my service. Taxes are completely irrelevant at this stage of my investment.
 
upsideguy said:
Sorry, tax policies are no better than a tertiary consideration in a business investment decision..... If the demand is there, the investment is made. A slow economy means no demand. Capital sits on the sidelines as long as doubts about demand are high.

I am a small business owner. I made a big bet in this economy solely on the perception that there is a demand for my service. Taxes are completely irrelevant at this stage of my investment.
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Depends on a company's overhead. My business has a very high overhead and taxes are huge consideration.
 
TurtleDude said:
yeah as long as one person needs something its wrong for the top 2% to have more money?

where do you get the idea that existing within a certain distance of me justifies me having to pay for what you think you need?

If someone is unemployed I don't have a duty to constantly fund his existence.
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Boy do you miss the point here. My post dealt with the public relations nightmare the GOP has advocating for two things that make them look like greedy misers wanting all they can get for themselves and their richer constituents while taking the axe to those actually in need. And the entire time they do this they are crying and whining about debts and deficits while their own willingness to help the richest would be the most costly item of these. Its pure hypocrisy.

I will not waste my or anyones time attempting to convince you that you live in a society with other people and may have obligations to them.
 
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Those evil republicans, how dare they force the democrats to think this issue is so important that they ignored it and ignored it and ignored it and ignored it until the point that it became a lame duck sessions and thus they had to use the fast track rules despite knowing that if it ever got to the point that it'd go to fast tracked rules it'd be voted down by republicans.

Damn those evil Republicans for stopping such amazingly important and absolutely necessary legislation!
 
haymarket said:
And the entire time they do this they are crying and whining about debts and deficits while their own willingness to help the richest would be the most costly item of these.
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I know this might shock you, but the Republicans desire to keep the tax rates the same for EVERYONE, not just for certain classes of people, was well known during the elections. Not just well known, but part of the reason some people voted for them.

The desire to limit and reduce the amount of entitlements given by the government was something that was well known during the election. Not just well known, but part of the reason some people voted for them.

The desire to limit government spending in general was something that was well known during the election. Not just well known, but part of the reason some people voted for them.

For your ridiculous hypothetical horrible PR blunder to happen it either requires that people who voted republican this election were somehow COMPLETELY ignorant of what the Republicans were stating OR believed in it only if it wasn't touching them. While perhaps there are some that fall into both categories, my wager would be that the number is less than those that have no issue with those things nor think them hypocritical.

OH MY GOD! THE SKY IS FALLING! Republicans are doing what they campaigned on and what their voters are demanded! OMG THEY'RE DOOMED!

...wait a minute, weren't we being told right before the election if the Republicans didn't live up to what their voters wanted they'd be doomed? Now they ARE doing what their voters wanted and they're doomed. Funny, is it me, or do Democrats and liberals just seem to ALWAYS thinks republicans are doomed regardless of any other factor besides the fact they're republicans?
 
from Zyphlin

Those evil republicans, how dare they force the democrats to think this issue is so important that they ignored it and ignored it and ignored it and ignored it until the point that it became a lame duck sessions and thus they had to use the fast track rules despite knowing that if it ever got to the point that it'd go to fast tracked rules it'd be voted down by republicans.
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The most important words in that sentence have been noted by me.

Do you have any evidence which demonstrates that voters were voting GOP because they wanted taxes cut on the top 2% or this just speculation on your part? I would be happy to read it and see some actual evidence supporting your claims.

OH MY GOD! THE SKY IS FALLING! Republicans are doing what they campaigned on and what their voters are demanded! OMG THEY'RE DOOMED!
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Republicans campaigned on certain things - outright hate of Obama being the most obvious. Some gave lip service to the debt and deficit. If they adopt a program of getting rid of hundreds of billions of dollars of revenue which is scheduled to go into the Treasury, and this only increases the deficit, they most certainly are NOT delivering on what they campaigned on. Just the opposite. It is the old bait and switch and the GOP are experts at it.
 
Albert Di Salvo said:
"Democrats brought the measure to the floor under fast-track rules that required a two-thirds vote to pass, so the measure fell despite winning a 258-154 majority."

Use of the fast track procedure in the lame duck session was nothing more than a political stunt designed to make leftists look good. The Democrats knew the proposed legislation was doomed, but brought it up anyway in a lame duck session where time is of the essence. This is nothing more than guerrilla theatre.
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Actually, they didn't want a bunch of amendments attached to it that would kill the bill.
 
haymarket said:
from Zyphlin



The most important words in that sentence have been noted by me.

Do you have any evidence which demonstrates that voters were voting GOP because they wanted taxes cut on the top 2% or this just speculation on your part? I would be happy to read it and see some actual evidence supporting your claims.



Republicans campaigned on certain things - outright hate of Obama being the most obvious. Some gave lip service to the debt and deficit. If they adopt a program of getting rid of hundreds of billions of dollars of revenue which is scheduled to go into the Treasury, and this only increases the deficit, they most certainly are NOT delivering on what they campaigned on. Just the opposite. It is the old bait and switch and the GOP are experts at it.
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What tax cut? Do you always parrot the party line? There are no tax cuts only extension of the current rates!

Doesn't look to me like you want to be intellectually honest on any issue. How long do you think an unemployed person should be provided with benefits from the taxpayers? Keep dodging and running from reality.
 
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independent_thinker2002 said:
Actually, they didn't want a bunch of amendments attached to it that would kill the bill.
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When in trouble always bring out the classwarfare card and "republicans want to starve kids, kill seniors, and pollute the air" rhetoric. Now add to that Republicans want to kick the unemployed into the curb. How long do today's unemployed get unemployment benefits? doubt that many here who support extension even care that it is two years.
 
upsideguy said:
Sorry, tax policies are no better than a tertiary consideration in a business investment decision..... If the demand is there, the investment is made. A slow economy means no demand. Capital sits on the sidelines as long as doubts about demand are high.

I am a small business owner. I made a big bet in this economy solely on the perception that there is a demand for my service. Taxes are completely irrelevant at this stage of my investment.
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The tax rate has always been irrelevant in making business decisions. Demand is always the key.
 
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