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Thread: House GOP blocks bill to extend jobless benefits

  1. #491
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    Re: House GOP blocks bill to extend jobless benefits

    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    IMO, the Education dept would need about 100 employees to create and oversee a set of standards.
    ....
    maybe a couple of representatives from each state. from my personal experience "educators" are the last people you want in charge of educational standards.

    how freaking hard could it be?

    basic math
    english proficiency
    science (chemistry, biology, physics, earth/physical science)
    some general history
    economics and government

    and then let the states decide which "electives" they want to teach in their schools
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    Re: House GOP blocks bill to extend jobless benefits

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    It benefits the country by helping to pay down the national debt.
    that, at least, is true. or, it would be true, if it did help pay down debt. the likelihood is that it won't, so this would be one of those good-initiative-bad-judgement routines.

    It benefits me by allowing me to "keep more of what I earn". Otherwise, taxes would need to be raised on ALL of us, a concept I have no problem with personally, but when I earn less than X annually and someone else who earns X4 my gross income but has been receiving tax breaks for 2-3 decades, I'd say they've had more than their fair share of "investment income incentives" to move the economy along.
    you've recieved a tax break right along with them; the rates were lowered for everybody.

    The Bush tax cuts didn't work because the rich didn't reinvest in this country's future.
    this is objectively not true. not only did revenues increase after the tax cuts, but the share of revenues paid by the wealthy increased. not only did the shares of revenue paid by the wealthy increase, they increased ahead of their pre-cut projections. according to none other than Christina Romer (President Obama's former lead economist), the tax cuts on the wealthy had a 'large and consistent positive output effect' (IE: it grew the economy, and continued to grow the economy).

    Instead, it would appear that they followed the Wall Street montra of "greed is good". If you doubt it, how do you explain the recession? You'll of course say it was homeowners who bought homes they couldn't afford, but let's not forget in most cases it was banks and mortgage lenders who convinced these people they could purchase their homes at low APR and refinance later (2-3 yrs).
    gosh, gee wiz, now why would a bank deliberately lend money that it knew it had a low chance of getting back.

    i'm sure it had nothing at all to do with the fact that that was precisely what they were being ordered to do by the government.


    the current recession is the result of an almost Perfect Storm of factors which came to be mutually-reinforcing. the politcal push to have lending institutions put more low-income people into housing (incidentally, no one ever mentions the greed of someone seeking a house above their means) combined with increased local property restrictions and a loose-money policy to send housing prices into a bubble. the desperate desire of the banks to be rid of the risk that the government had pushed them into combined with an implicit government backing of freddie and fannie to create a market for selling mortgage-backed securities. all it took was one pause (the jump in gas prices helped), and the whole ponzi scheme was revealed. once housing prices stopped skyrocketing upwards, flippers and those who had bought way above themselves walked away from the houses that now had more debt on them than they were worth. this sank not only the value of those securities, but everyone else's property value; which banks hold as worth to cover their investments. a simple alteration to the mark-to-marketing rule would have saved banks the vast majority of their losses in this case, but there you are.

    then government tried to 'fix' it; which so far has worked about as well as it did under Hoover and FDR. massive debt-driven 'stimulus' plans served to soak up all investment capital. instead of looking for ways to invest in the American economy, foriegn and local holders of dollars invested in government debt; which means that instead of being spent on businesses and recovery; those dollars were spent on bridges to nowhere and studies on robot bees.

    IE: we had a financial bubble, caused by government distortion of market signals (both from Congress and the Fed; as well as local governments). and then, when it popped, government took all the capital that would have normally led to recovery and spent it all on Congresscritters favorite pork projects. And so here we are today.

    How'd that work out for low-income families who's only real mistake was trying to live the American dream?
    that wasn't their mistake; i have a low-income family, and we are living the American dream. we will be buying a house the right way; not the greedy instant-gratification-gotta-have-it-now way. as for low-income families who lost out, they are suffering; which is typical of what happens to them when government tries to 'help' them by giving them something. minorities, for example: local organizations were given veto power on bank expansions in order to provide a means of forcing that bank to loan certain percentages and amounts to minorities. buuuut, minorities often couldn't afford as much. soooo, the banks created fancy new ways (ARMs, etc) for them to be able to afford to get a mortgage so that the government wouldn't punish them; and then sold those mortgages off as fast as they could. those targeted minorities, meanwhile, were left holding half the potato when the music stopped playing, and suffered accordingly.

    It's a call for them to give back to the country who helped make them millionaires in the first place in providing the very investment opportunities and tax shelters they've come to enjoy so much.
    they already do that, by paying more taxes than any other comparable demographic in this nation and providing much of the economic expansion and dynamism that drive our economy.

    however, for an idea of what the impact of your proposed tax hike will be, go back through the argument for 'raising taxes on the rich', and everywhere you see the word "rich", remove it and replace it with the word "employers".
    Last edited by cpwill; 11-22-10 at 01:27 PM.

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    Re: House GOP blocks bill to extend jobless benefits

    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    Adding regulatory staff doens't always mean more regulation.
    well in this case it certainly did. 7,000 pages worth to the Federal Register, to be more precise.

    one searches in vain for a major piece of deregulation that passed during the last eight years. On the contrary, it was the Bush administration that pushed through Sarbanes-Oxley and other regulatory measures. Overall, the Bush administration has added more than 7,000 pages of regulations to the Federal Register. By almost every measure, government grew bigger, more expensive and more intrusive under President Bush and the Republican Congress.

    ...too many of them sat at their desks all day, every day, doing nothing....
    gosh i wish they did. A) they would do less damage and B) we could then more easily be rid of them.

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    Re: House GOP blocks bill to extend jobless benefits

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    It benefits the country by helping to pay down the national debt.

    It benefits me by allowing me to "keep more of what I earn". Otherwise, taxes would need to be raised on ALL of us, a concept I have no problem with personally, but when I earn less than X annually and someone else who earns X4 my gross income but has been receiving tax breaks for 2-3 decades, I'd say they've had more than their fair share of "investment income incentives" to move the economy along.

    The Bush tax cuts didn't work because the rich didn't reinvest in this country's future. Instead, it would appear that they followed the Wall Street montra of "greed is good". If you doubt it, how do you explain the recession? You'll of course say it was homeowners who bought homes they couldn't afford, but let's not forget in most cases it was banks and mortgage lenders who convinced these people they could purchase their homes at low APR and refinance later (2-3 yrs). How'd that work out for low-income families who's only real mistake was trying to live the American dream? Yes, they should have read the fine print and better understood the conditions of the mortgage contract they signed, but let's be real here. By a show of virtual hands how many honestly know the full details of your mortgage contract? I sure don't! But I knew enough to insist on something better than an ajustable rate mortgage. So, I guess I was smarter than most average Joes out there. Still, my point is this isn't an indictment on those top 1-2% wage earners. It's a call for them to give back to the country who helped make them millionaires in the first place in providing the very investment opportunities and tax shelters they've come to enjoy so much.

    "Ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country." For once, I'm asking where's your patriotism?
    So you think the 70 billion that liberals claim it will generate will actually happen and if it does it will be used to pay down the deficit? 70 billion dollars out of 1.3 trillion deficit? Do you realize how insignificant that is and that it will never happen? Why do you continue to buy the rhetoric which history is a better guide?

    How do you know what the rich did with their money? Further explain to me how the Bush economy grew by 4.5 trillion during the disaster liberals claim he caused? How were 8.5 million jobs created between 2001-2007?

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    Re: House GOP blocks bill to extend jobless benefits

    Quote Originally Posted by independent_thinker2002 View Post
    Higher fees for state services and licenses too. The point is, it isn't free to live in Texas.
    It is business friendly, unlike a lot of other states. You'd think more states would get a clue from Texas.
    I come from a state that had state tax. I don't really notice other things being higher here, though I'm sure they are. I sure don't miss filing state income tax. I swear that was more a pain in the ass than trying to figuer the federal taxes.
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    Re: House GOP blocks bill to extend jobless benefits

    from Oscar B63

    from my personal experience "educators" are the last people you want in charge of educational standards.
    sure thing. And you probably would not want to have plumbers having anything to do with actual issues about plumbing. Or stay away from former athletes who actually played the game when you are assembling a team. Or forget about doctors and nurses when writing standards for the medical profession. And when we are engaged in military activity never ever ever consult actually professional military people who know more about it that you do.
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    Re: House GOP blocks bill to extend jobless benefits

    Quote Originally Posted by Barbbtx View Post
    It is business friendly, unlike a lot of other states. You'd think more states would get a clue from Texas.
    I come from a state that had state tax. I don't really notice other things being higher here, though I'm sure they are. I sure don't miss filing state income tax. I swear that was more a pain in the ass than trying to figuer the federal taxes.
    State income taxes are easy in Illinois. But yes, Texas is obviously business friendly. The unions do have a lot of power in Chicago.
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    Re: House GOP blocks bill to extend jobless benefits

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    well in this case it certainly did. 7,000 pages worth to the Federal Register, to be more precise.

    one searches in vain for a major piece of deregulation that passed during the last eight years. On the contrary, it was the Bush administration that pushed through Sarbanes-Oxley and other regulatory measures. Overall, the Bush administration has added more than 7,000 pages of regulations to the Federal Register. By almost every measure, government grew bigger, more expensive and more intrusive under President Bush and the Republican Congress.



    gosh i wish they did. A) they would do less damage and B) we could then more easily be rid of them.
    guess I should have added....Adding more regulations is of little use if they are not enforced....and penalties should be severe, this idea of white collar criminals getting easy time for a few years is counter-productive...
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    Re: House GOP blocks bill to extend jobless benefits

    Quote Originally Posted by Barbbtx View Post
    It is business friendly, unlike a lot of other states. You'd think more states would get a clue from Texas.
    I come from a state that had state tax. I don't really notice other things being higher here, though I'm sure they are. I sure don't miss filing state income tax. I swear that was more a pain in the ass than trying to figuer the federal taxes.
    yeah, but you have to live in Texas, part swamp, part desert, part in tornado alley, part in the path of Hurricanes, muggy and buggy from one end to the other....

    My sister that lives in Kingwood compains about high property taxes and high home insurance...guess no place is perfect...
    Oracle of Utah
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    Re: House GOP blocks bill to extend jobless benefits

    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    Yes, Texas has no state taxes, I use to live there..... but Texans still pay federal taxes.....so as I said, that is Maryland's problem...the big issue here is federal taxes...

    Odd how many are so concerned with the plight of the rich, having to pay more taxes and all, when they are not one of them....
    We all should be concerned with the plight/flight of the rich.

    Donald Trump, who knows something about making money, says of course the rich will leave when hit with higher taxes. "I know these people," he told me. "They're international people. Whether they live here or live in a place like Switzerland doesn't really matter to them."
    You haven't left, I told him.

    "I haven't left yet. ... Look, the rich people are going to leave. And other people are going to leave. You're going to end up with lots of people that don't produce. And then that's the spiral. That's the end."

    And that's another good reason for us to get on with reducing the size of government.
    (John Stossel writes for Creators Syndicate.)
    More taxes will send the rich packing - dailylocal.com
    Catawa is my favorite bleeding heart liberal.
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