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Thread: Ex-Gitmo Detainee Ahmed Ghailani Cleared of All but One Charge in U.S. Embassy Bombin

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    Re: Ex-Gitmo Detainee Ahmed Ghailani Cleared of All but One Charge in U.S. Embassy Bo

    Quote Originally Posted by TOJ View Post
    His guilt or innocence or how long he will be in prison is irrelevant. My point is that this is another indication of the incompetence of the Obama administration.

    .
    Personally, I see this as the incompetence of the Bush administration for using torture on these prisoners, and so tainting any confessions they have made.
    Also, we need to legalize recreational drugs and prostitution.

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    Re: Ex-Gitmo Detainee Ahmed Ghailani Cleared of All but One Charge in U.S. Embassy Bo

    Quote Originally Posted by samsmart View Post
    Personally, I see this as the incompetence of the Bush administration for using torture on these prisoners, and so tainting any confessions they have made.
    I cannot believe how naive you and others here really are

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    Re: Ex-Gitmo Detainee Ahmed Ghailani Cleared of All but One Charge in U.S. Embassy Bo

    Quote Originally Posted by samsmart View Post
    Personally, I see this as the incompetence of the Bush administration for using torture on these prisoners, and so tainting any confessions they have made.
    Actually, the Bush Admin never had the intent to do anything so foolish as to bring up these clowns in a civilian court. That's all Obumbles. To point out just one anomaly that occured with the civilian jury, look to the verdict. Guilty of conspiracy to blow up the buildings, but not guilty of conspracy to kill the folks inside the building. That is a product of one thing ..... verdict trading in the jury room so as to deliver a finding of guilt on at least one charge .. and that is all they got .. UNO !

    Secondly, the rules of evidence are more forgiving with a Military Commision or Tribunal. We won't know how much difference it would have made, although I suspect the verdict(s) would have been more encompassing with 3-5 military judges instead of this half-baked jury.

    Its a political fail for Obama. He sits with Gitmo not close to closing, with no further direction on the KSM trial (and others). This trial and verdict did nothing to support his campaign rhetoric, or move anything along more to the liberal foolishness he once professed regarding all of this. This is what you get with dumbasses running the show.
    Last edited by Eighty Deuce; 11-18-10 at 08:19 PM.

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    Re: Ex-Gitmo Detainee Ahmed Ghailani Cleared of All but One Charge in U.S. Embassy Bo

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    i think this ought to thoroughly demonstrate the foolishness of the idea that we should haul these guys in front of a civilian court with civilian rules of evidence. the damming evidence all got thrown out because it was connected to enhanced interrogation; and now we barely manage to keep a guy who had (at the time of capture) been involved in coordinating multiple mass-casualty high-visibility attacks, had bomb-building supplies in his possession and had near real-time intelligence of many of AQ's highest leadership?

    what a mess.
    20 years to life is not "barely keeping" someone.
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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    Re: Ex-Gitmo Detainee Ahmed Ghailani Cleared of All but One Charge in U.S. Embassy Bo

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    20 years to life is not "barely keeping" someone.
    But getting him on one charge out of 288 is "skin of the teeth". That is just barely in anyone's book. Cannot get any closer to complete incompetence than that.

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    Re: Ex-Gitmo Detainee Ahmed Ghailani Cleared of All but One Charge in U.S. Embassy Bo

    Quote Originally Posted by Eighty Deuce View Post
    But getting him on one charge out of 288 is "skin of the teeth". That is just barely in anyone's book. Cannot get any closer to complete incompetence than that.
    No, it isn't, because that's a stupid way to measure the justice system that you only came up with because it conveniently allows you to blame Obama. We don't measure justice based on convictions, we measure justice based on what actually happened, what we can prove.

    He was found guilty beyond a reasonable doubt of a crime that gives him 20 to life. Given the situation and the outcome, probably life.

    He didn't plant the bombs. He didn't detonate them. If I hand you a gun, and you use it to go kill someone, it's pretty hard to convict me of murder. You have to prove that I was in on the specific plot to kill that dastardly Brett Favre (and his horrible interception throwing ways *shakes fist*). Given that much of the evidence was tainted, that's pretty much impossible. Evidence obtained under torture is not evidence, people will say anything to get the pain to stop. They'll turn in their own, innocent mother.

    I'd bet 20 bucks he knew exactly what was being done with those bombs, but the evidence to prove it wasn't there. That's the American justice system. You have to be proven guilty of a charge to be convicted of it. Or do you think we should revisit that idea?

    He's going to get life in prison. The rest is just paperwork.
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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    Re: Ex-Gitmo Detainee Ahmed Ghailani Cleared of All but One Charge in U.S. Embassy Bo

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    I cannot believe how naive you and others here really are
    I feel the same way. I cannot believe how naive you and others here really are either.
    Also, we need to legalize recreational drugs and prostitution.

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    Re: Ex-Gitmo Detainee Ahmed Ghailani Cleared of All but One Charge in U.S. Embassy Bo

    Quote Originally Posted by Eighty Deuce View Post
    Actually, the Bush Admin never had the intent to do anything so foolish as to bring up these clowns in a civilian court. That's all Obumbles. To point out just one anomaly that occured with the civilian jury, look to the verdict. Guilty of conspiracy to blow up the buildings, but not guilty of conspracy to kill the folks inside the building. That is a product of one thing ..... verdict trading in the jury room so as to deliver a finding of guilt on at least one charge .. and that is all they got .. UNO !
    Yes, because the accused wasn't given a speedy trial, and much of the evidence against him was tainted by the torture he went through.

    If instead of being held in Guantanamo for so long the accused was brought to trial while witness was still alive, evidence was fresher, and any comments he made wasn't coerced out of him with the use of force, it may have been more likely for a jury to find him guilty of those other counts.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eighty Deuce View Post
    Secondly, the rules of evidence are more forgiving with a Military Commision or Tribunal. We won't know how much difference it would have made, although I suspect the verdict(s) would have been more encompassing with 3-5 military judges instead of this half-baked jury.
    If all you wanted was a conviction, then sure. If you want justice, then no. We don't allow statements presented as evidence through coercion of violence for a reason. So which is more important to you?

    Quote Originally Posted by Eighty Deuce View Post
    Its a political fail for Obama. He sits with Gitmo not close to closing, with no further direction on the KSM trial (and others). This trial and verdict did nothing to support his campaign rhetoric, or move anything along more to the liberal foolishness he once professed regarding all of this. This is what you get with dumbasses running the show.
    And yet it is still better than the alternatives presented to us last election.
    Also, we need to legalize recreational drugs and prostitution.

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    Re: Ex-Gitmo Detainee Ahmed Ghailani Cleared of All but One Charge in U.S. Embassy Bo

    obama and holder, if you think about it, are really very lucky the creep wasn't completely acquitted

    because both have said several times that even if those they try in new york civil court, before the equivalent of lance ito, are acquitted, THEY WILL STILL BE DETAINED

    'Heads I Win, Tails You Lose': In 9/11 Case, KSM Won't Walk Free Even If Found Not Guilty - Newsweek

    kinda defeats the whole purpose, no?

    remember when boneheaded obama all but guaranteed that ksm would be EXECUTED?

    Obama: 9/11 Mastermind Will Get the Death Penalty in NY | NBC New York

    are you sure these people know what they're doing?

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    Re: Ex-Gitmo Detainee Ahmed Ghailani Cleared of All but One Charge in U.S. Embassy Bo

    Quote Originally Posted by samsmart View Post
    Yes, because the accused wasn't given a speedy trial, and much of the evidence against him was tainted by the torture he went through.

    If instead of being held in Guantanamo for so long the accused was brought to trial while witness was still alive, evidence was fresher, and any comments he made wasn't coerced out of him with the use of force, it may have been more likely for a jury to find him guilty of those other counts.
    This is war. This asshole was an illegal combatant. Our civilian court system was not built to deal with foreign terrorists. It was modeled to protect the Constitutional rights of Americans, which are far more extensive than those of illegal combatants. It is precisely why we have Military Commissions and Tribunals. Duh.


    If all you wanted was a conviction, then sure. If you want justice, then no. We don't allow statements presented as evidence through coercion of violence for a reason. So which is more important to you?
    If I wanted a conviction ? Look a post or two above this to be reminded how Holder guaranteed that KSM would be executed as the result of a civilian trial, and kept imprisoned regardless. I'm not the one looking for a railroad to execution here, much less guaranteeing one (do you not have a problem with Hoolder on that ?). But I do realize how civilian court process is not suited for this. Duh #2


    And yet it is still better than the alternatives presented to us last election.
    Speak no evil. See no evil. Hear no evil. Obama is a fail compared to his own rhetoric and oath. Regardless of paths not taken. Duh #3.

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