Page 7 of 7 FirstFirst ... 567
Results 61 to 64 of 64

Thread: U.S. Voters Prefer Job Creation Over Deficit Cuts, Poll Shows

  1. #61
    Cheese
    Aunt Spiker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Sasnakra
    Last Seen
    09-10-16 @ 06:10 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    28,433

    Re: U.S. Voters Prefer Job Creation Over Deficit Cuts, Poll Shows

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Yes but those markets aren't usually geared specifically to illegal immigrants. It's very rare for a business to increase their profits by paying out higher wages. Unless, of course, it means they get better workers. Most businesses are not Ford in the 1920s. Just paying your employees more in order to boost their purchasing power, in the hopes that they'll buy more of your products, is generally a losing strategy.
    Why are you so concerned with a business' profit-margin, anyway?
    Aside from wages - there are quite a few business-methods that can and do net more profits.

    I see a business employing illegals to be a purely selfish decision - avoiding paperwork, taxes, adequate wages, benefits and everything else that citizens are expected to complete or are entitled to - and they do this PURELY because they want to pocket more of their 'business earnings'

    There are, though, countless businesses that don't make any excuses - who do care adequately for their employees and pay a very reasonable wage - and they still make a significant profit.

    I, for one, have worked for quite a few different chains - and never was paid minimum wage - and they never had to worry about their profit-margin decreasing for any reason.
    A screaming comes across the sky.
    It has happened before, but there is nothing to compare it to now.
    Pynchon - Gravity's Rainbow

  2. #62
    Enemy Combatant
    Kandahar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Washington, DC
    Last Seen
    10-15-13 @ 08:47 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    20,688

    Re: U.S. Voters Prefer Job Creation Over Deficit Cuts, Poll Shows

    Quote Originally Posted by Aunt Spiker View Post
    Why are you so concerned with a business' profit-margin, anyway?
    I dislike the idea of harming businesses and the economy as a whole, just to satisfy someone else's xenophobic impulses.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aunt Spiker
    Aside from wages - there are quite a few business-methods that can and do net more profits.
    Depends on the type of business. If you're in a labor-intensive business like vegetable-picking or housekeeping, wages are one of the biggest expenses.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aunt Spiker
    I see a business employing illegals to be a purely selfish decision - avoiding paperwork, taxes, adequate wages, benefits and everything else that citizens are expected to complete or are entitled to - and they do this PURELY because they want to pocket more of their 'business earnings'
    The fallacy here is assuming that "citizens are entitled to" a wage higher than the market is willing to bear. If that puts them at a level of poverty that society finds unacceptable, than society should pay for it in the form of social programs...not force their EMPLOYER to bear the extra cost via artificially high wages. That's completely counterproductive and would just result in MORE poverty.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aunt Spiker
    There are, though, countless businesses that don't make any excuses - who do care adequately for their employees and pay a very reasonable wage - and they still make a significant profit.
    ...and those aren't the industries that illegal immigrants tend to gravitate toward, so it's irrelevant.
    Are you coming to bed?
    I can't. This is important.
    What?
    Someone is WRONG on the internet! -XKCD

  3. #63
    Cheese
    Aunt Spiker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Sasnakra
    Last Seen
    09-10-16 @ 06:10 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    28,433

    Re: U.S. Voters Prefer Job Creation Over Deficit Cuts, Poll Shows

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    I dislike the idea of harming businesses and the economy as a whole, just to satisfy someone else's xenophobic impulses.
    Well I dislike harming the economy as a whole just to satisfy the notion that an *employer* isn't responsible to provide an adequate wage - but the government IS there for that purpose.

    Depends on the type of business. If you're in a labor-intensive business like vegetable-picking or housekeeping, wages are one of the biggest expenses.
    I know a lot of citizens who work these jobs and fair well.
    As far as farming goes - there are government subsidies to make up for costs and keep product and labor costs low or substituted - which nestles in with your idea that the government should prop all businesses up with our taxes.

    The fallacy here is assuming that "citizens are entitled to" a wage higher than the market is willing to bear. If that puts them at a level of poverty that society finds unacceptable, than society should pay for it in the form of social programs...not force their EMPLOYER to bear the extra cost via artificially high wages. That's completely counterproductive and would just result in MORE poverty.
    So - instead of citizens being able to depend on their employer to provide them a reasonable wage they're suppose to just lean on the government. . .which comes from taxes that we provide because we work and spend.

    What's the point of being employed at all, then, if you're going to be poor? Why bother!
    If all anyone can manage is just a smidge above the poverty line then - by all means - let them eat cake, get fat and die quickly. Nevermind the notion that people should be able to care for theirselves. . . nevermind that.

    ...and those aren't the industries that illegal immigrants tend to gravitate toward, so it's irrelevant.
    Specify which ones you're thinking of.

    I hear countless situations in which companies, farms, and almost every leg of employment is raided and crunched down on because they choose to hire illegals intentionally - or simply don't check the proper papers like they should.
    A screaming comes across the sky.
    It has happened before, but there is nothing to compare it to now.
    Pynchon - Gravity's Rainbow

  4. #64
    Enemy Combatant
    Kandahar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Washington, DC
    Last Seen
    10-15-13 @ 08:47 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    20,688

    Re: U.S. Voters Prefer Job Creation Over Deficit Cuts, Poll Shows

    Quote Originally Posted by Aunt Spiker View Post
    Well I dislike harming the economy as a whole just to satisfy the notion that an *employer* isn't responsible to provide an adequate wage - but the government IS there for that purpose.
    There is no reason that government should get involved in determining what's a "fair" transaction, for the same reason that the government generally avoid setting price controls. If I buy a dozen ears of corn from a farmer, should the government mandate a minimum price to ensure the farmer earns enough? If I buy a dozen donuts from a mom-and-pop coffee store, should the government step in to determine if the store owner received fair compensation for his trouble?

    On the other hand, I have no problem at all with government programs to alleviate poverty. That's a far better use of resources than market-distorting price controls, including the minimum wage.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aunt Spiker
    I know a lot of citizens who work these jobs and fair well.
    As far as farming goes - there are government subsidies to make up for costs and keep product and labor costs low or substituted - which nestles in with your idea that the government should prop all businesses up with our taxes.
    Huh? I don't know where you got the idea that I thought the government should prop up businesses with taxes. I'm generally opposed to that, and agricultural subsidies are among the most egregious examples of all.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aunt Spiker
    So - instead of citizens being able to depend on their employer to provide them a reasonable wage they're suppose to just lean on the government. . .which comes from taxes that we provide because we work and spend.
    If society wants to alleviate poverty, then it's only fair that society should do so instead of blaming the employer. The employer didn't cause the poverty, any moreso than I'm causing poverty if I strike a good bargain from the coffee shop owner when I buy donuts from him.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aunt Spiker
    What's the point of being employed at all, then, if you're going to be poor? Why bother!
    If all anyone can manage is just a smidge above the poverty line then - by all means - let them eat cake, get fat and die quickly. Nevermind the notion that people should be able to care for theirselves. . . nevermind that.
    Except you aren't actually arguing that people take care of themselves. You're just trying to shift the cost of caring for the person from society to the employer, but you're still more than willing to have the government impose its will to alleviate poverty.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aunt Spiker
    Specify which ones you're thinking of.
    Illegal immigrants tend to gravitate toward low-skill, labor-intensive industries like vegetable-picking, housekeeping, and food service.
    Are you coming to bed?
    I can't. This is important.
    What?
    Someone is WRONG on the internet! -XKCD

Page 7 of 7 FirstFirst ... 567

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •