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Thread: U.S. Voters Prefer Job Creation Over Deficit Cuts, Poll Shows

  1. #31
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    idea Re: U.S. Voters Prefer Job Creation Over Deficit Cuts, Poll Shows

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    Worse? How is 1.1 million new jobs worse? How is GM and Ford in much better positions worse? How is more banks lending worse?

    Tell me, why do you think $1 trillion less in aggregate demand over 2 years with higher taxes would produce better outcomes?

    Tell me, why do you think doing nothing to prop up banks when they had stopped interbank overnight lending would produce better outcomes?

    Tell me, why do you think no qualitative easing, which the market did approve of with direct stock gains, would have produced better outcomes?

    You have this condescending attitude towards those who disagree with you, but when pushed into technical issues, you totally flail around like a kid in a pool who never learned to swim.



    Where did he say anything to show he did not know that? Seriously dude. Read a post for comprehension before replying.
    But are there really 1.1 million new jobs ? Who can ever forget the 2 million "new jobs created" BS created by the Bush administration in the months leading up to the 2004 election, when they used every phony ruse you could think of (construction workers returning to work after a cold winter, union workers returning back to work after striking, etc.) ?
    If 1.1 million new jobs have been created, then how is it that unemployment has jumped to the government figure of 10 million ?
    Want to get Americans back to work ? Get the 8 million illegal aliens in the US out of here, and stop giving out 150,000 work visas to foreigners every month, and get unemployed Americans into those jobs.
    Last edited by Protectionist; 11-26-10 at 10:52 PM.

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    Re: U.S. Voters Prefer Job Creation Over Deficit Cuts, Poll Shows

    Quote Originally Posted by washunut View Post
    Perhaps a better debate would be whether the government could have spent the $800 billion in a way to have a long term benefincial impact on our economy.
    Of course. My biggest dig with the stimulus was in its timing. What kind of stimulus program takes effect 2 years from the recession? A stupid one. It's like giving a blood transfusion next month to someone who needs it now.

    For example if we had used money to more quickly put in place a network of natural gas refilling stations. This would allow people to sell cars feuled by nat gas which is produced here versus imported oil. We could have modernized our railroad track beds as to allow them to run high speed trains to better move product. Rail is much more energy efficient than trucks.
    There are plenty of ideas that are worth consideration. However, considering the state of disrepair of America's infrastructure, we probably should have spent it there. There are hundreds of bridges (and thousands of overpasses) in the US in need of repair and rebuilding and our roads across the country needs to be replaced.

    So CAN government spending have favorable impacts, yes. But it seems our congress is not willing to pas this sort of legislation.
    And it's getting worse. The GOP is now putting security at risk for political points. The Dems are worthless, but when the GOP is now making good on getting Obama out at all costs, we have real problems.

    I did not respond to the TARP comments because the money given to banks will be paid back with interest and profit so it was more a lona than an expense.
    Except for AIG and maybe Chrysler. AIG's money is gone.
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    Re: U.S. Voters Prefer Job Creation Over Deficit Cuts, Poll Shows

    Quote Originally Posted by Taboon View Post
    This is why I don't have a ton if faith in actions actually being taken to curb the deficit. Americans, in general, are about Number One.
    Isn't that the root of capitalism in general?
    I'm already gearing up for Finger Vote 2014.

    Just for reference, means my post was a giant steaming pile of sarcasm.

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    Re: U.S. Voters Prefer Job Creation Over Deficit Cuts, Poll Shows

    Quote Originally Posted by Protectionist View Post
    But are there really 1.1 million new jobs?
    I think so. That data is coming from new private sector jobs.

    Who can ever forget the 2 million "new jobs created" BS created by the Bush administration in the months leading up to the 2004 election, when they used every phony ruse you could think of (construction workers returning to work after a cold winter, union workers returning back to work after striking, etc.) ?
    That is a good point.

    If 1.1 million new jobs have been created, then how is it that unemployment has jumped to the government figure of 10 million ?
    The way the unemployment number is calculated. As I understand it, the numbers now include those formerly searching and who left searching and have now restarted searching for jobs. The real question has U6 changed?

    Want to get Americans back to work ? Get the 8 million illegal aliens in the US out of here, and stop giving out 150,000 work visas to foreigners every month, and get unemployed Americans into those jobs.
    Eh. Colbert showed that the jobs illegals do America's won't. Furthermore, most of those work visas as for jobs we can't fill. Highly skilled worker visas are not cheap and firms would rather hire a American then have to issue one of those. The paperwork ALONE for a skilled worker visa and fees are pretty high. The reason we issue so many is we don't have the people here for those jobs.
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    Re: U.S. Voters Prefer Job Creation Over Deficit Cuts, Poll Shows

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    The government can't replace private sector cash flow. The past two years and over a trillion dollars has proven that.
    No, but who said anything about replacing it? If you'd really paid attention to how this country got into this mess you'd know that corporate America could not correct the economic problem because THEY WERE THE PROBLEM! Even GW Bush said so when he addressed the nation in October 2008. No one else had the economic capacity to put the private sector (banking, securities, mortgage lenders and insurance companies, particularly property) back on sound fiscal footing than did the federal government. Yet, it is NOT advocating a takeover of anything from the private sector. TARP was NOT a takeover initiative orchestrated by GW Bush; it was a financial crutch for the private sector to stabalize it so that the economy could repair itself.

    And in doing so, the federal government then stepped in with public-private partnerships (i.e., government contrators) to help supplement the economic base that has been lost due to the economic downturn. I don't know of any new federal agency that has been created since Pres. Obama took office and yet everyone keeps talking about this expansion of government. If all you have to go by are these federal contract jobs, most of which were temporary job for the Census which by law occurs approximately every 10 years anyway, I really don't see where the government expansion has truly taken place. But Conservatives will push that line knowing there's really no truth to it. But folks soak it up anyway.

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    Re: U.S. Voters Prefer Job Creation Over Deficit Cuts, Poll Shows

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    Eh. Colbert showed that the jobs illegals do America's won't.
    I still don't understand the argument that there are jobs that Americans "won't do." If Americans "won't do" a job and there is nobody else to take the job, then the people seeking to fill those positions will be forced to raise the salaries or otherwise improve the position until Americans will do those jobs.

    It's not like prior to illegal immigration, nobody on the planet picked vegetables or bussed tables. Those jobs simply paid more than they do now.
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    Re: U.S. Voters Prefer Job Creation Over Deficit Cuts, Poll Shows

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    Except for AIG and maybe Chrysler. AIG's money is gone.
    That is why I mentioned the bank portion. AIG will be interesting. The mutual fund with a great 10 year track record has been buying up AIG stock. It now holds nearly 30% of the common stock which will only have value if they can pay off the government or Geithner turns the debt to some type of stock.

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    Re: U.S. Voters Prefer Job Creation Over Deficit Cuts, Poll Shows

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    I still don't understand the argument that there are jobs that Americans "won't do." If Americans "won't do" a job and there is nobody else to take the job, then the people seeking to fill those positions will be forced to raise the salaries or otherwise improve the position until Americans will do those jobs.
    In the context of current pay.
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    Re: U.S. Voters Prefer Job Creation Over Deficit Cuts, Poll Shows

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    I still don't understand the argument that there are jobs that Americans "won't do." If Americans "won't do" a job and there is nobody else to take the job, then the people seeking to fill those positions will be forced to raise the salaries or otherwise improve the position until Americans will do those jobs.

    It's not like prior to illegal immigration, nobody on the planet picked vegetables or bussed tables. Those jobs simply paid more than they do now.
    I agree that the pay could and should be raised until people are willing to do the jobs. It used to be a man could support his family on the pay of a janitor. Today that's hardly enough to support himself let alone his family.
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    Re: U.S. Voters Prefer Job Creation Over Deficit Cuts, Poll Shows

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    I still don't understand the argument that there are jobs that Americans "won't do." If Americans "won't do" a job and there is nobody else to take the job, then the people seeking to fill those positions will be forced to raise the salaries or otherwise improve the position until Americans will do those jobs.
    And if they're forced to raise the salaries, then they no longer make any profit, the industry becomes uncompetitive, and it leaves the country entirely.

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC
    It's not like prior to illegal immigration, nobody on the planet picked vegetables or bussed tables. Those jobs simply paid more than they do now.
    If you have to pay tomato pickers enough to motivate American workers to pick tomatoes, then the price of American tomatoes will increase. This makes imports from other countries more attractive, and bankrupts the domestic industry entirely. So the net result won't be more jobs for Americans at the expense of foreigners.
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