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Thread: Contagion hits Portugal as Ireland dithers on rescue

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    Re: Contagion hits Portugal as Ireland dithers on rescue

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    How does the US have a "Private System" when no one can be legally refused service from hospitals and the government spends many billions on Medicare?
    Because most of your insurance is private based as most of the hospital sector. It is for profit, not for the people.

    As well, HMO's have distorted the cost of medical treatment as has over the top insurance claims. If there was actually free enterprise in the Untied States health care costs would fall dramatically, just as it works in other areas..
    It is only distorted because there is no regulation to prevent HMO's running the system for massive profits. As for thinking that free enterprise will make things cheaper.... I cant name many industries where that is actually true, since there is very few industries where there is free enterprise, especially in the US. Maybe the car industry, but then again that is back stopped by the US government. Maybe food sales, but then again here bulk is king and it has concentrated on few big sellers.. hardly good for free enterprise.
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    Re: Contagion hits Portugal as Ireland dithers on rescue

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    To Central America, yes. In other parts of the world, no.

    I was speaking recently to a friend in New Zealand and asked how the real estate market was. He said there wouldn't be any of it wasn't for the English.

    If you are genuinely interested in the subject you can google white flight, and related topics.
    It is nothing new. If it was not for immigrating Brits, then Canada and the US would never have existed

    But there is also quite a bit of immigration of Brits back to the UK due to the economic crisis world wide. Dubai, Spain, Italy, France and so on have seen a decrease in Brits on average because of the economic crisis.
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    Re: Contagion hits Portugal as Ireland dithers on rescue

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    It is nothing new. If it was not for immigrating Brits, then Canada and the US would never have existed

    But there is also quite a bit of immigration of Brits back to the UK due to the economic crisis world wide. Dubai, Spain, Italy, France and so on have seen a decrease in Brits on average because of the economic crisis.
    Do you have any links supporting these claims?

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    Re: Contagion hits Portugal as Ireland dithers on rescue

    [QUOTE]
    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    Because most of your insurance is private based as most of the hospital sector. It is for profit, not for the people.
    Why do you claim that because it is for "profit" it is not for "the people"? Where is the rationale in this?

    Do you feel governments are better suited to deliver services than the private sector?



    It is only distorted because there is no regulation to prevent HMO's running the system for massive profits.
    That's right, and it's largely because these HMO's were given monoploies in certain areas and rigorous competition, thanks to the government, was not allowed.

    As for thinking that free enterprise will make things cheaper.... I cant name many industries where that is actually true, since there is very few industries where there is free enterprise, especially in the US. Maybe the car industry, but then again that is back stopped by the US government. Maybe food sales, but then again here bulk is king and it has concentrated on few big sellers.. hardly good for free enterprise.
    You claim that free enterprise does not necessarily make things cheaper and then go on to mention government involvement as to why things aren't less expensive. Lobbyists will always try to get their industry protected somehow because everyone, including governments, want to monopolize their power. It makes things a great deal easier for them as they needn't bother with any pesky competition. But of course it is bad for the consumer and monopolies by anyone must be resisted.

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    Re: Contagion hits Portugal as Ireland dithers on rescue

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Tammerlain View Post
    Budgetting is RATIONING

    Money is part of a budget and as it is not unlimited it is rationed in the way it is spent. A certain amount on health care, a certain amount on housing a certain amount on food. If a pÍrson does not have th funds for health care because they spent the money on food instead, health care was rationed, due to affordability
    No, Lord Tammerlain, budgeting is not rationing.

    Budgeting allows freedom of choice as to where we might spend our money, while rationing is imposed.

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    Re: Contagion hits Portugal as Ireland dithers on rescue

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    No, Lord Tammerlain, budgeting is not rationing.

    Budgeting allows freedom of choice as to where we might spend our money, while rationing is imposed.
    If you need X amount of health care and have to settle for less due to financial reasons, you are having health care rationed. You are doing the rationing rather then the government but it is still being rationed.

    The end result is that you did not get the health care you need
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    Re: Contagion hits Portugal as Ireland dithers on rescue

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Tammerlain View Post
    If you need X amount of health care and have to settle for less due to financial reasons, you are having health care rationed. You are doing the rationing rather then the government but it is still being rationed.

    The end result is that you did not get the health care you need
    I think we are at a stalemate here, Lord Tammerlain. I feel the words have different meaning, but you feel differently. I dont see any purpose in arguing the semantics when definitions are easily available..

    define:budget - Google Search

    rationing - definition of rationing by the Free Online Dictionary, Thesaurus and Encyclopedia.

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    Re: Contagion hits Portugal as Ireland dithers on rescue

    the act of distributing by allotting or apportioning; distribution according to a plan

    sounds like budgetting does it not.

    Your concern is that the government is determining what and who receives a scarce resource causing some to go without, rather then have the market determine who goes without. Someone will go without the medical care they need in a timely manner either way
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    Re: Contagion hits Portugal as Ireland dithers on rescue

    [QUOTE]
    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Tammerlain View Post
    the act of distributing by allotting or apportioning; distribution according to a plan

    sounds like budgetting does it not.
    It might sound like budgetting but it isnt. A person might decide that they will spend X amount of money on food, entertainment, rent, clothing, etc. That is budgeting. Its a matter of personal choice, Rationing is not a personal choice.

    Your concern is that the government is determining what and who receives a scarce resource causing some to go without, rather then have the market determine who goes without. Someone will go without the medical care they need in a timely manner either way
    Why will someone go without in a free market system? There is no health rationing where pets are concerned, or dentists, or anything else where the government doesn't get involved.. It only comes into play when bureaucrats, politicians and monopolies take control.

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    Re: Contagion hits Portugal as Ireland dithers on rescue

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    It might sound like budgetting but it isnt. A person might decide that they will spend X amount of money on food, entertainment, rent, clothing, etc. That is budgeting. Its a matter of personal choice, Rationing is not a personal choice.



    Why will someone go without in a free market system? There is no health rationing where pets are concerned, or dentists, or anything else where the government doesn't get involved.. It only comes into play when bureaucrats, politicians and monopolies take control.
    A lot of people do not go to the dentist because they cant afford it correct?

    Dentists are not cheap, my last visit cost $400, a significant amount of money for some, a sum that many can not afford and will do without. Pets of owners who have the money to go to the vets will get care, those without money will do without. It is not a matter of personal choice if it is clearly unaffordable for them. It is a decision forced on them by a lack of resources. If they had the money and could afford, but choose not to use the service that would be a personal choice, rather then an imposed on
    Happy Hanukkah Cheerfull Kwanzaa
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