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Thread: Contagion hits Portugal as Ireland dithers on rescue

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    Re: Contagion hits Portugal as Ireland dithers on rescue

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    LOL that is the biggest load of bs you have said in a while.

    Every country but 3 in the democratic world has one form of "Socialized health care" or another. The US, Swiss and Chile have a private system and they all are much more expensive and have at best the same results.

    As free enterprise meaning no health rationing.. on what planet and in what universe?
    How does the US have a "Private System" when no one can be legally refused service from hospitals and the government spends many billions on Medicare?

    As well, HMO's have distorted the cost of medical treatment as has over the top insurance claims. If there was actually free enterprise in the Untied States health care costs would fall dramatically, just as it works in other areas..

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    Re: Contagion hits Portugal as Ireland dithers on rescue

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post

    Well yes, there might be no doctors available, etc, but there is certainly rationing wherever there is socialized medicine. Perhaps other words than "rationing" will be used but it all comes down to the system being unable to pay for all those who demand the government supply their health care at a standard they feel they need it.



    Then that is called affordibility, not rationing.



    Sure. But if you have the money, as in a private system, you can ignore government rationing. Why would there be rationing under a private system?
    Because the private system does not have unlimited money, just as a public system does not have unlimited money. HMO's have to ration health care to ensure profitability. A governmnent has to ration to keep taxes at a rate that will not get them voted out of office

    Both systems have to limit the amount of medical services in order for the systems to be affordable for the taxpayers, or the members of the private system. If you have to make a choice between paying rent or paying for insulin you have to ration something, it does not matter if you are in the private or public system. The only difference is who is choosing what to ration and who is being effected by the rationing
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    Re: Contagion hits Portugal as Ireland dithers on rescue

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    Probably North Americans, though it often depends on where in particular because certain cultural groupd tend to stick together.
    So white flight is occuring in larger numbers from the US and Canada then from Europe from your observations?
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    Re: Contagion hits Portugal as Ireland dithers on rescue

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Tammerlain View Post
    Because the private system does not have unlimited money, just as a public system does not have unlimited money. HMO's have to ration health care to ensure profitability. A governmnent has to ration to keep taxes at a rate that will not get them voted out of office

    Both systems have to limit the amount of medical services in order for the systems to be affordable for the taxpayers, or the members of the private system. If you have to make a choice between paying rent or paying for insulin you have to ration something, it does not matter if you are in the private or public system. The only difference is who is choosing what to ration and who is being effected by the rationing
    Profits can't be forced, taxes can.
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    Re: Contagion hits Portugal as Ireland dithers on rescue

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Tammerlain View Post
    So white flight is occuring in larger numbers from the US and Canada then from Europe from your observations?
    Are you serious? Given the relative lack of minorities in Europe by comparison, how can you ask?
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
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    Re: Contagion hits Portugal as Ireland dithers on rescue

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Tammerlain View Post
    Because the private system does not have unlimited money, just as a public system does not have unlimited money. HMO's have to ration health care to ensure profitability. A governmnent has to ration to keep taxes at a rate that will not get them voted out of office
    Who gave HMO's the right to manage Health care? In fact these HMO's were granted a monopoly by the governments where there wouldn't be any interstate competition. And the government is now creating an even bigger monopoly. Not only will it become unaffordable, it will eventually be rationed, as is already happening in some countries.. Health care was never rationed before big business and big government came along..

    Both systems have to limit the amount of medical services in order for the systems to be affordable for the taxpayers, or the members of the private system.
    How is the private care being rationed? It is not and never has been.
    If you have to make a choice between paying rent or paying for insulin you have to ration something, it does not matter if you are in the private or public system. The only difference is who is choosing what to ration and who is being effected by the rationing
    That's not rationing, that's budgeting.

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    Re: Contagion hits Portugal as Ireland dithers on rescue

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Tammerlain View Post
    So white flight is occuring in larger numbers from the US and Canada then from Europe from your observations?
    To Central America, yes. In other parts of the world, no.

    I was speaking recently to a friend in New Zealand and asked how the real estate market was. He said there wouldn't be any of it wasn't for the English.

    If you are genuinely interested in the subject you can google white flight, and related topics.

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    Re: Contagion hits Portugal as Ireland dithers on rescue

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    Are you serious? Given the relative lack of minorities in Europe by comparison, how can you ask?
    I think it's the old "everything's all right, Jack" attitude, and a matter of serious denial. And because these opinions and attitudes were based on faith rather than reality , giving them up is a great deal more difficult.

    Those who do leave Western European countries will be called 'traitors', 'rats' etc, but in fact they are realists, who never voted for all this government largess or immigration systems, and also aren't willing to pay for the fiscal and social costs. They can see the very clear writing on the wall.

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    Re: Contagion hits Portugal as Ireland dithers on rescue

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    To Central America, yes. In other parts of the world, no.

    I was speaking recently to a friend in New Zealand and asked how the real estate market was. He said there wouldn't be any of it wasn't for the English.

    If you are genuinely interested in the subject you can google white flight, and related topics.
    It really does go both ways. I was in Dubai recently, a hypercapitalist society if there is one, which was full of young Europeans and Americans keen to live tax free and make money they couldn't dream of back home. A lot of them are now going back home with their tails between their legs after losing out on the property market and associated sectors. There is no social safety net, so the idea that people will settle and raise families in these places is dubious. Maybe they thought its easy money and the next wave will be substantially more talented and capable of surviving in that dog eat dog society. Time will tell.

    I have no idea what New Zealand offers however. It is a typically British cultural trait to emigrate though, since the days it was the worlds pre-eminent power.

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    Re: Contagion hits Portugal as Ireland dithers on rescue

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    Who gave HMO's the right to manage Health care? In fact these HMO's were granted a monopoly by the governments where there wouldn't be any interstate competition. And the government is now creating an even bigger monopoly. Not only will it become unaffordable, it will eventually be rationed, as is already happening in some countries.. Health care was never rationed before big business and big government came along..


    How is the private care being rationed? It is not and never has been

    That's not rationing, that's budgeting.
    Budgetting is RATIONING

    Money is part of a budget and as it is not unlimited it is rationed in the way it is spent. A certain amount on health care, a certain amount on housing a certain amount on food. If a pÍrson does not have th funds for health care because they spent the money on food instead, health care was rationed, due to affordability
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