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Thread: TSA ejects Oceanside man from airport for refusing security check

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    Re: TSA ejects Oceanside man from airport for refusing security check

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Why not?
    Because Israel usualyl let's native Isreali's through without issue but further questions foreigners. This works in Israel because it doesn't have the large diverse population of he US and the millions of people flying through hundreds of airports. This type of profiling takes time and personel dedication for every single suspect. What happens during the time that two or three security officials are watching one single suspect? How many other possible suspects walked through unseen?


    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    didn't you just say that we couldn't do that?
    No I meant we couldn't allow for the citizen pass that Israel does.



    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    That sounds like an exploitable problem to me, or a loophole if you will.
    It is. It's a major concern.



    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Yes, God forbid a Nun has some hand lotion.
    Being a nun has nothing to do with it. What you wear or your status in life should have no positive outcome of your security experience. Everyone should be put through the same tests because every persona is exploitable.



    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Yet we cow to CAIR who says that we can only pat down the head and neck of a woman wearing a Hijab....Great.
    We shouldn't. Regliious affiliation should have no weight on how the level of basic security screening. If your religion doesn't allow for you to succumb to the accepted security measures then you can't travel. At the same time regliious practices should be taken into consideration when developing security measures. In the end if we aren't physicially touching people or putting them in violating situations no religious issues should come up.

    If my religion says I can't sit in an airplane seat next to a fat person that doesn't give me the right to force my seat to be changed.
    Last edited by Gibberish; 11-23-10 at 03:33 PM.
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    Re: TSA ejects Oceanside man from airport for refusing security check

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Is running your hand up the habbit of a Nun immoral? how about a child?
    A proper and legal pat down, as perscribed, is neither illegal or immoral. Again, no one is gropped, fondled or felt up.



    Joe, I like ya, but willing blindness is no excuse.
    Other than yourself, no one is blind. You'll have to show me a freedom lost before I can agree with you.



    People that have gone through this have likened it to a sexual assault. Are they exaggerating?
    If they did that, they would be exaggerating, yes. And it is still a good question ask, exactly how many have made such a hyperbolic claim?


    Absolutely untrue. Reports of these machines, and even the TSA themselves note that the scanners show amazing detail, even to the point of detecting, and showing sweat on someone's back. Now that effectively makes you naked to the person viewing the scan. I doubt metal detectors see that do they?
    More detailed doesn't make in much different. Of course it would be more detailed. If it weren't there would be no reason to change. But from a legal stand point, it is a very csimilar procedure.


    As of yet inconclusive, but ok.
    The National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration says a person flying at 30,000 feet will be exposed to 285 to 406 microrems of radiation an hour, or between 4.75 and 6.77 microrems per minute of flight.

    So the numbers and science back up Pistole's claim. But, all scientists aren't sold. Four faculty members at the University of California at San Francisco maintain that cosmic radiation is spread over the entire body, but scanners concentrate it in the skin and underlying tissue, so it could be a "dangerously high" amount.

    The FDA said that the concerns were unfounded and that health risks associated with the full body scanners were "minuscule."

    This fact check isn't declaring TSA's new scanners safe. We're just looking at Pistole's claim that their radiation is "equivalent to about three minutes' worth of air travel by anybody, say, at 30,000 feet." The numbers back that up. So we rate his statement True.

    PolitiFact: Radiation of airport scans less than the dose in flight - St. Petersburg Times

    Michael D. Story, Ph.D. is an associate professor at UT Southwestern Medical Center in Dallas in the Division of Molecular Radiation Biology, he does research on radiation for NASA.

    His overall assessment of the scanners? "The risk in this case for cancer is extremely low. An individual should not be worried about that at all," Story said.

    Story said the dosage from the body scanners is at least 200 times less than that a passenger receives during a typical airline flight.

    In other words, he says, if you're not worried about the radiation you get flying, you shouldn't be worried about the radiation from the scanner.

    How Much Radiation in an Enhanced Body Scan? | NBC Dallas-Fort Worth


    For a while yesterday there was a story buzzing around about a Colorado TSA man arrested for masturbating while screening a High School girls team through a check point. It was later debunked, however, not so hard to imagine is it really?
    I suppose we can imagine any sick thing if we're inclinded to, but you don't need this machine to be that ill. The point is, what the viewer sees isn't particularly sexual and there is no reason for anyone to see it that way.



    Except your freedom to fly. And most important your 4th amendment freedom. Now I agree you don't have a right to fly, but it is a freedom.
    It's not really a loss of freedom and no one has that absolute right. And you are still free to fly, once all concerns are delt with.


    "Torture" is your hyperbole.

    j-mac
    No, it has been seen as torture, ruled torture by our own government, and seen as torture throughout it's history. It is not the least bit hyperbole. But it is interesting how willing some are to see it as something other than what it is, but object to a simple pat down. There is no lie in that this is at some level humorous.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: TSA ejects Oceanside man from airport for refusing security check

    Quote Originally Posted by Gibberish View Post
    You really can't have exceptions when it comes to security.
    No... you really can't AVOID exceptions when it comes to security. Not without shutting down the industry. There are always going to be gaps in the screening process to exploit.

    And talk about idiocy. The airport security culture is so dead-set against profiling that we can't even seem to screen passengers on designated "no fly" lists with any reliability. How many times have we screwed that up?

    We're not able to keep the people we know are potential threats off our planes - yet we seem more concerned about checking the contents of baby diapers because of the outlandishly remote possibility that someone may have stashed some C4 there.

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    Re: TSA ejects Oceanside man from airport for refusing security check

    Quote Originally Posted by Taylor View Post
    We're not able to keep the people we know are potential threats off our planes - yet we seem more concerned about checking the contents of baby diapers because of the outlandishly remote possibility that someone may have stashed some C4 there.
    Because the individual is completely ignored during the current screening process. it's all about what items are being carried. We couldn't catch Osama Bin Laden walking through JFK unless we was carrying more then 3 oz's of liquid.

    And let's not get into private planes. There is absolutely no security for private planes. My friend is a pilot for a private jet and was able to borrow it for a day and took a group of us to Napa. We didn't go through a single piece of security from the parking lot to the plane. If any terrorist attack were going to take place all they would need to do is put down the $40K for a private flight and stock it full of C4 with no issues.
    Last edited by Gibberish; 11-23-10 at 04:15 PM.
    "Gold gets dug out of the ground in Africa, or someplace. Then we melt it down, dig another hole, bury it again and pay people to stand around guarding it. It has no utility. Anyone watching from Mars would be scratching their head."
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    Re: TSA ejects Oceanside man from airport for refusing security check

    Quote Originally Posted by Gibberish View Post
    Because Israel usualyl let's native Isreali's through without issue but further questions foreigners. This works in Israel because it doesn't have the large diverse population of he US and the millions of people flying through hundreds of airports. This type of profiling takes time and personel dedication for every single suspect. What happens during the time that two or three security officials are watching one single suspect? How many other possible suspects walked through unseen?
    Well then, maybe we need to focus on qualifying the security personal better right? I mean if they are that incompetent then I don't hold much faith that they can do their job as it is now, much less if we give them more power.

    No I meant we couldn't allow for the citizen pass that Israel does.
    I realize that the size difference is a concern, and would probably take more training for the personal involved. Instead we in this country build the TSA to some 67,000 agents, then say that we can't do something so we have to invade your rights....

    It is. It's a major concern.
    How does this address that concern?

    Being a nun has nothing to do with it. What you wear or your status in life should have no positive outcome of your security experience. Everyone should be put through the same tests because every persona is exploitable.
    Common sense man.....Let's see, you have a Nun, a grandmother, and two Arab males in line in their mid 20s....Who do you search? This TSA group says the Nun.

    We shouldn't. Regliious affiliation should have no weight on how the level of basic security screening. If your religion doesn't allow for you to succumb to the accepted security measures then you can't travel. At the same time regliious practices should be taken into consideration when developing security measures. In the end if we aren't physicially touching people or putting them in violating situations no religious issues should come up.
    Then I guess the terrorists win.

    j-mac
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

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    Re: TSA ejects Oceanside man from airport for refusing security check

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    that has nothing to do with what I'm objecting to
    try as desperately as you might to make it so, this thread is not about you

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    polling people who aren't flying wouldn't mean that much either
    LOL!

    what was that, again?

    in america?

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    But, again, I repeat, it is the hyperbole and exaggeration I am having a problem with.
    we know, we know, you've told us 100 times

    LOL!

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    It isn't fondling or feeling up.
    ok, boo, YOU WIN!

    it's not FONDLING

    it's only a procedure which, according to the chair and sheila jackson lee, runs afoul of privacy and civil liberties, needs to be questioned as to its constitutionality

    good job, barrister!

    LOL!

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    having a reasonable complaint is different than losing your mind and screaming fondling and feeling up
    are you saying this woman and all the others have lost their minds?

    “I believe this is a tipping point,” said Debra Burlingame, a vocal advocate for tough anti-terrorism policies. Burlingame – whose brother was the pilot of the hijacked American Airlines Flight 77 which crashed into the Pentagon on 9/11 – was outraged after undergoing the new TSA pat-downs.

    “I was not prepared for it…I’ve been patted down a lot of times but never like this,” recalled Burlingame. “I had to tell myself not to cry…..It’s about having a keen sense of your human dignity being violated.”
    TSA pat-downs a 'tipping point' in terror fight? - Josh Gerstein - POLITICO.com

    who do you think you are, the most insufferably insensitive individual on your side of a tv?

    LOL!

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    I can only speak for myself
    LOL!

    read on

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    there is no reason for anyone to see it that way
    the 60 second submitter who only speaks for himself is suddenly the mouthpiece for 300 million?

    your insufferable arrogance, insensitivy and smug self satisfaction are exceeded only by your thoughtless absurdity

    carry on

    and HURRY!

    LOL!
    Last edited by The Prof; 11-23-10 at 04:37 PM.

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    Re: TSA ejects Oceanside man from airport for refusing security check

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    A proper and legal pat down, as perscribed, is neither illegal or immoral. Again, no one is gropped, fondled or felt up.
    Proper? Would you let your 14 year old daughter go through that scanner, or succumb to a invasive pat down?

    Other than yourself, no one is blind. You'll have to show me a freedom lost before I can agree with you.
    I already did. Go back and read.

    If they did that, they would be exaggerating, yes. And it is still a good question ask, exactly how many have made such a hyperbolic claim?
    This smacks of blaming rape victims for their attacks, do you think that as well?

    More detailed doesn't make in much different. Of course it would be more detailed. If it weren't there would be no reason to change. But from a legal stand point, it is a very csimilar procedure.
    So far. Those cases haven't been challenged in court yet, but I have the feeling they will. So you really can't speak authoritatively on it can you?

    Politifact, and MSNBC pap.
    Do you have any non shill sources?

    I suppose we can imagine any sick thing if we're inclinded to, but you don't need this machine to be that ill. The point is, what the viewer sees isn't particularly sexual and there is no reason for anyone to see it that way.
    Uh huh, and do you know how much training is given these TSA employees before they hand them a box of rubber gloves? I do.

    It's not really a loss of freedom and no one has that absolute right. And you are still free to fly, once all concerns are delt with.
    What? The 4th amendment? or Air travel?

    No, it has been seen as torture, ruled torture by our own government, and seen as torture throughout it's history. It is not the least bit hyperbole. But it is interesting how willing some are to see it as something other than what it is, but object to a simple pat down. There is no lie in that this is at some level humorous.
    Really? Where are your arrests? Where are your war crimes prosecutions? I would think if it were so damned clear to the entire world, then at least that would have happened by now.

    j-mac
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

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    Re: TSA ejects Oceanside man from airport for refusing security check

    Quote Originally Posted by Gibberish View Post
    Because the individual is completely ignored during the current screening process. it's all about what items are being carried. We couldn't catch Osama Bin Laden walking through JFK unless we was carrying more then 3 oz's of liquid.
    Nicely put.
    MSNBC News: The Left's answer to Fox but without all the success.

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    Re: TSA ejects Oceanside man from airport for refusing security check

    Quote Originally Posted by topshelf View Post
    Nicely put.
    Except that it is totally wrong...Do we not have watch lists? Or did we abandon those as well for the great pleasure of running our hands down a 12 year olds fruit of the looms?


    j-mac
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

    Alexis de Tocqueville

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    Re: TSA ejects Oceanside man from airport for refusing security check

    meanwhile, outside the adolescent world of narcissistic platonism:

    TSA uproar moves to Capitol Hill - Laura Rozen - POLITICO.com

    The uproar over new TSA screening procedures expanded from airport checkpoints to Capitol Hill on Monday, as the Democratic and Republican House caucuses convened a rare House-wide staff briefing on the new procedures this morning in the Capitol basement.

    The comprehensive briefing of House staff, by a TSA deputy, covered everything – the threat from Al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula, screening procedures, pat-downs (standard and enhanced) – “the whole works,” one House staffer who attended the briefing told POLITICO.

    He said that several House staffers were uncomfortable and averted their eyes when the TSA demonstrated an enhanced pat-down in the room of 200 people.

    “The dumbest part: they did two pat-down demonstrations – male on male, and female on female,” the House staffer said. And they used a young female TSA volunteer “and in front of a room of 200 people, they touched her breasts and her buttocks. People were averting their eyes. The TSA was trying to demonstrate ‘this is not so bad', but it made people so uncomfortable to watch, that people were averting their eyes.”

    They shot themselves in the foot,” the staffer continued.
    the histrionically hyperbolic to be dismissed with a quick click and submit:

    But TSA officials have not explained why an ABC News producer reports that a TSA officer put her hands inside her underwear and touched her extensively at Newark Airport on Sunday in an experience the producer called demeaning and inappropriate.

    "The woman who checked me reached her hands inside my underwear and felt her way around," ABC producer Carolyn Durand told ABC. "It was basically worse than going to the gynecologist. It was embarrassing. It was demeaning. It was inappropriate."

    ABC News, contacted by POLITICO, said there was no question that the incident happened and that Pistole told the network it should not have.
    cuz when you gross out abc...

    tough question, no answer:

    One staffer who attended the House briefing this morning asked the TSA officials, essentially, why are we doing all of these intelligence operations if we are going to treat the entire traveling American public like terrorists, the staffer relayed. “Why fund this huge intelligence operation if we are going to treat everyone like terrorists?”

    It’s a message the Obama administration and TSA are still finding it tough to answer, despite Secretary of State Hillary Clinton saying on Sunday that they would seek to bring more “balance” to the controversial screening policies.
    what's quite revealing is the lack of serious defense of these intrusive scans on this thread---the embarrassingly poor quality of the apology here before us

    you should note as have i the full out flight of more intelligent obamite voices that used to proliferate these pages, where have they gone?

    they must be searching for their self respect, which is a good start

    i wish em the best

    happy skies, all

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