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Thread: Supreme Court: "Don't Ask Don't Tell" OK during appeal.

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    Re: Supreme Court: "Don't Ask Don't Tell" OK during appeal.

    The Democrats have a real problem with DADT because it is tied to other legislation that no one wants like the "Dream Act." I want to see what happens when the Joint Chiefs say that the troops don't want DADT repealed.........

    It really has to be embarrassing for Hussein Obama that he says he is for repeal and His own Justice Department is fighting it........

    I will tell you if the liberals are going to get it done they had better do it before the lame duck congress is over because they are history after that........
    Last edited by Navy Pride; 11-12-10 at 07:56 PM.
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    Re: Supreme Court: "Don't Ask Don't Tell" OK during appeal.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    I proved the 95% in the Marines and the study for from the other services won't be available until Dec 17........We shall see what it says......It has to really torque your jaws that Hussein Obama your hero who says he is for repeal is fighting repeal with his justice Department......I love it...........
    1. I didn't vote for Obama.
    2. The study is due on December 1st.
    3. The only thing you proved about your 95% of Marines comment is that the Marine Commander is incredibly ignorant of poll taking and apparently so are you.

    Dude, you are clearly anti gay.

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    Re: Supreme Court: "Don't Ask Don't Tell" OK during appeal.

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    You are grasping at straws at this point. Seriously a show of hands at town hall style meetings is not enough to claim that 95% of Marine Corps are against it.

    What about the Pentagon survey which showed that most of the armed forces don't care and that a repeal of the policy would likely not hurt our current war efforts?

    For somebody who claimed they would be on board for this policy to be repealed if the troops didn't mind, you changed your tune rather quickly.
    Is there any poll, survey, or study that interviewed 100% of the membership of the United States armed forces? The answer to that would be, "no". That being the case, a show of hands at a townhall style meeting has just as much accuracy and credibility as anything else that's been presented, so far.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Supreme Court: "Don't Ask Don't Tell" OK during appeal.

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Is there any poll, survey, or study that interviewed 100% of the membership of the United States armed forces? The answer to that would be, "no". That being the case, a show of hands at a townhall style meeting has just as much accuracy and credibility as anything else that's been presented, so far.
    Um...no. The Pentagon survey included responses from over 100,000 active duty soldiers who were able to respond in private and anonymity without any fear of repercussions. Based on what has been reported, 70% of those surveyed thought that lifting the ban would have no negative effect. The town hall style meetings would have been small, public, in front of commanding officers, and feasibly could have lead to repercussions. There is no comparison between the two. The town hall style meetings are pretty much useless from a measurement perspective in getting honest feedback.
    Last edited by CriticalThought; 11-12-10 at 08:33 PM.

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    Re: Supreme Court: "Don't Ask Don't Tell" OK during appeal.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    Can you read, you called me a liar when I said that the Commandant of the Marines said that 95% of his marines were against it and I proved you were wrong.....You owe me and apology for that............Not sure how you get away with it either..
    If you thought I called you a liar, I apologize for that. However, what I thought I said was that you were pulling figures out of your ass. In either event, I think an argument could be made for either position. Sure the Commandant made the claim, but it seems like he was pulling the figures out of his ass and it is not supported by the findings of the Pentagon study.

    Now....as for your changing tune.....Are you still ok with it as long as the military is? or are you going to be singing a different tune?
    <font size=5><b>Its been several weeks since the Vegas shooting.  Its it still "Too Early" or can we start having the conversation about finally doing something about these mass shootings???​</b></font>

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    Re: Supreme Court: "Don't Ask Don't Tell" OK during appeal.

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Um...no. The Pentagon survey included responses from over 100,000 active duty soldiers who were able to respond in private and anonymity without any fear of repercussions. Based on what has been reported, 70% of those surveyed thought that lifting the ban would have no negative effect. The town hall style meetings would have been small, public, in front of commanding officers, and feasibly could have lead to repercussions. There is no comparison between the two. The town hall style meetings are pretty much useless from a measurement perspective in getting honest feedback.
    100,000? That's it? So a survey of only 10% of our armed forces is enough? As you point out, there were no reserve component service members surveyed. If you through in reserve personel, it goes down to just north of 5%.

    A survey of 5% of our armed forces is enough to convince you that it's ok? Of course it is, because we already know your partisan stance on the subject, anyway.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Supreme Court: "Don't Ask Don't Tell" OK during appeal.

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    100,000? That's it? So a survey of only 10% of our armed forces is enough? As you point out, there were no reserve component service members surveyed. If you through in reserve personel, it goes down to just north of 5%.
    Do you know what a representative sample is? You don't need to survey an entire population in order to know within a few percentage points what the atittudes are. 5% is several times more than what is needed to form a representative sample. Apparantly they don't teach statistics in the armed forces.

    Sampling (statistics) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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    Re: Supreme Court: "Don't Ask Don't Tell" OK during appeal.

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Do you know what a representative sample is? You don't need to survey an entire population in order to know within a few percentage points what the atittudes are. 5% is several times more than what is needed to form a representative sample. Apparantly they don't teach statistics in the armed forces.

    Sampling (statistics) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    That's why I put more stock in results, than I do any kind of poll.

    Seems you sought refuge with insulting my education. Kinda surprised it took so long, but it was inevitable.
    Last edited by apdst; 11-12-10 at 08:50 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Supreme Court: "Don't Ask Don't Tell" OK during appeal.

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Do you know what a representative sample is? You don't need to survey an entire population in order to know within a few percentage points what the atittudes are. 5% is several times more than what is needed to form a representative sample. Apparantly they don't teach statistics in the armed forces.

    Sampling (statistics) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    10% is actually a huge number in the world of statistical sampling. You are absolutely right on.
    <font size=5><b>Its been several weeks since the Vegas shooting.  Its it still "Too Early" or can we start having the conversation about finally doing something about these mass shootings???​</b></font>

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    Re: Supreme Court: "Don't Ask Don't Tell" OK during appeal.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    I proved the 95% in the Marines and the study for from the other services won't be available until Dec 17........We shall see what it says......It has to really torque your jaws that Hussein Obama your hero who says he is for repeal is fighting repeal with his justice Department......I love it...........
    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Is there any poll, survey, or study that interviewed 100% of the membership of the United States armed forces? The answer to that would be, "no". That being the case, a show of hands at a townhall style meeting has just as much accuracy and credibility as anything else that's been presented, so far.
    These two posts are representative of a much larger issue that plagues this country: a lack of ability in discerning good information from bad.

    Take NP's post. He says he "proved" that 95% of the USMC is against gays serving openly. Where did his information come from?

    A single officer asking for a "show of hands" in a single town-hall meeting. Why is this a bad method of information gathering?
    - Not at all detailed. (single vague question)
    - Not at all accurate. (raising hands? I doubt he even counted, just "estimated")
    - Tiny sample size (one group of marines)
    - Most importantly, utterly severe "peer pressure" influence. I can't stress this enough. You have a commanding officer, whose opinion is already well known, "asking" what the marines think. This is the military. Your opinion is that which your superior assigns to you. Next, this is an organization that does everything it can to stamp out individualism, and it's probably the most macho group of men on the face of this planet. An anonymous survey and a public one would probably yield drastically different results.

    You can't compare this to an anonymous, scientificly-minded survey.

    Which brings me to apdst. You don't survey 100% of a group, because that's prohibitively time consuming and unnecessary. A good enough sample size is close enough. There have been some leaked, preliminary numbers of what the pentagon has been doing so far, and they indicate a drastically different result. Since those are non-official, preliminary figures they aren't exactly solid, but this 95% number has zero credibility, especially given the fact that among the general population the support for allowing gays to serve openly is nearly 80%. The USMC being that far off of the general population is essentially impossible.
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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