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Thread: Ending US military gay ban 'won't harm war effort'

  1. #211
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    Re: Ending US military gay ban 'won't harm war effort'

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    You stated that it was the Pentagon that ordered the cease of DADT, when it was actually a federal judge and you argued that it was Obama that ordered that DADT continue when it was actually the Appeals Court. You were not even approximately correct.



    The Pentagon chose to comply with the judge orders.



    No, the Obama administration asked the Appeals court to stay the federal judges orders.



    They didn't reverse it, the Appeals Court put a stay on the Federal judge's ruling.

    For some reason you seemed bound and determined to ignore the facts.
    Thats funny because I was about to say the same to you. The reversal he was referring to was to allow the current law to remain in effect. That is a reversal to suspending it.

    And he is right again when he said the Obama administration pushed to keep the current law in place until the decesion has been made by the court.
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    Re: Ending US military gay ban 'won't harm war effort'

    Quote Originally Posted by texmaster View Post
    Thats funny because I was about to say the same to you. The reversal he was referring to was to allow the current law to remain in effect. That is a reversal to suspending it.

    And he is right again when he said the Obama administration pushed to keep the current law in place until the decesion has been made by the court.
    I wasn't debating with him that Obama pushed to keep the current law in place. He stated more than once that it was the Pentagon that ordered a suspension of DADT, when it was actually a federal judge, and that Obama ordered that the Pentagon continue the policy, when it was actually an Appeals Court.

    Obama has been pushing to keep the policy because he wants Congress to repeal it in an orderly manner. However, it is intellectually dishonest to claim that he is going against the Pentagon's wishes in this respect or that the Pentagon took it upon itself to suspend the policy.
    Last edited by CriticalThought; 11-13-10 at 03:30 PM.

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    Re: Ending US military gay ban 'won't harm war effort'

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    You stated that it was the Pentagon that ordered the cease of DADT, when it was actually a federal judge and you argued that it was Obama that ordered that DADT continue when it was actually the Appeals Court. You were not even approximately correct.
    The judge called it unconstitutional. It was the Pentagon that ordered the halt. You are arguing for nothing.

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    The Pentagon chose to comply with the judge orders.
    The Pentagon gave the order. The judge called it unconstitutional.


    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    No, the Obama administration asked the Appeals court to stay the federal judges orders.
    And also instructed the Pentagon that DADT is to stay in effect for the time being, which countered the former order given to the branches. He reversed it.

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    For some reason you seemed bound and determined to ignore the facts.
    God damn, you are stating exactly what I have been stating. Get off your soap box. For some reason you demand a civilian hero on a white horse while stripping the military part in this stupid process. If Obama hadn't said a thing, the Pentagon's policy would right now be agreeing with the judge.

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    Re: Ending US military gay ban 'won't harm war effort'

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    I wasn't debating with him that Obama pushed to keep the current law in place. He stated more than once that it was the Pentagon that ordered a suspension of DADT, when it was actually a federal judge, and that Obama ordered that the Pentagon continue the policy, when it was actually an Appeals Court.
    Well, that's your problem. You are debating instead of conversing. There is nothing for you to "win" here. You seem to be absolutely unaware of the Pentagon order to suspend DADT between the judge's finding and Obama's order to continue DADT. It's like you need this all to be a civilian issue to work out and thusly deny the military involvement to end DADT. You know, because the military is supposed to be the gay man's mortal enemy.



    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Obama has been pushing to keep the policy because he wants Congress to repeal it in an orderly manner.
    Which reversed the Pentagon's order to comply with the ****ing judge. ****!
    Last edited by MSgt; 11-13-10 at 03:41 PM.

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    Re: Ending US military gay ban 'won't harm war effort'

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Care to explain to us how heightened privacy rules is dsicrimination?
    Because those "heightened privacy rules" would not apply or not apply in the same way to heterosexual personnel. That is discrimination.


    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Show the official policy, set by the DOD, that discusses the transition of openly gay service members into the system.

    As always, thanks in advance.
    The DADT policy since its implementation has been the transition, although not an official one.

    Under DADT, especially within the last decade, only a person's CO could initiate an investigation into a person's sexuality. And unless there was some official record that actually proved a person was homosexual, a CO could choose to not investigate a person who even stated multiple times and the COC even believed was gay. Which means that every person joining the military should understand that they will be serving with homosexuals, even some who can say that they are homosexual. It would completely depend on the chain of command as to whether the person is discharged or even investigated for simple statements of homosexuality or even public displays out of uniform.

    This is a transition from the old policy, which was essentially, if you were suspected of being homosexual, anyone could call you out on it. And if the CO knew about it, not only would he violate the policy of no homosexuals, but also, the person made a false official statement since they used to officially ask about a person's sexuality.
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    Re: Ending US military gay ban 'won't harm war effort'

    Quote Originally Posted by MSgt View Post
    Well, that's your problem. You are debating instead of conversing.
    The name of the forum is "Debate" Politics not "Converse" politics.

    There is nothing for you to "win" here. You seem to be absolutely unaware of the Pentagon order to suspend DADT between the judge's finding and Obama's order to continue DADT.
    The Pentagon suspended DADT in order to comply with the federal court's order. That is the fact, whether you wish to accept it or not.

    It's like you need this all to be a civilian issue to work out and thusly deny the military involvement to end DADT. You know, because the military is supposed to be the gay man's mortal enemy.
    I simply want you to stop talking bull**** and get with the facts. For starters, learn what an injunction is.

    Which reversed the Pentagon's order to comply with the ****ing judge. ****!
    Thank you! We are making progress. You admit that the Pentagon was adhering to the federal court's order.
    Last edited by CriticalThought; 11-13-10 at 05:14 PM.

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    Re: Ending US military gay ban 'won't harm war effort'

    Quote Originally Posted by MSgt View Post
    The judge called it unconstitutional. It was the Pentagon that ordered the halt. You are arguing for nothing.
    No the judge ordered an injunction on DADT. Do you know what an injunction is?

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20101012/...ys_in_military

    Apparently you do not.

    The Pentagon did not simply say, "Oh the courts said this is unconstitutional so we better stop" the judge issued a world wide injunction forcing them to stop.
    Last edited by CriticalThought; 11-13-10 at 05:15 PM.

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    Re: Ending US military gay ban 'won't harm war effort'

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    The Pentagon suspended DADT in order to comply with the federal court's order. That is the fact, whether you wish to accept it or not.
    YES, THAT IS THE FACT. The same damn fact I have stated over and over for which you cried was false. The Pentagon could have easily ignored it until the President said otherwise. Instead it complied to end the burden for which Obama came out and reversed.

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post

    I simply want you to stop talking bull**** and get with the facts.
    They are the same damn facts!!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post

    Thank you! We are making progress. You admit that the Pentagon was adhering to the federal court's order.
    I've stated this all along. Are you this dense? The judge ordered it unconstitutional, the military jumped at the chance to end the policy. It was Obama that reversed this and kept DADT as the law of the land until further notice.

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    Re: Ending US military gay ban 'won't harm war effort'

    Quote Originally Posted by MSgt View Post
    YES, THAT IS THE FACT. The same damn fact I have stated over and over for which you cried was false. The Pentagon could have easily ignored it until the President said otherwise. Instead it complied to end the burden for which Obama came out and reversed.
    Explain to me how the Pentagon could have ignored a court injunction? Obama also did not reverse it, he asked the Appeals court to put a stay on the federal court's injunciton.

    They are the same damn facts!!!!!
    No they aren't. You refuse to acknowledge what an injunction is and that Obama did not issue some direct order to reverse things.

    I've stated this all along. Are you this dense? The judge ordered it unconstitutional, the military jumped at the chance to end the policy.
    No it didn't. The judge had to order a world wide injunction to get the Pentagon to cease enforcing the policy.

    It was Obama that reversed this and kept DADT as the law of the land until further notice.
    No it wasn't. Even though it was Obama who pushed for it, it was the Appeals Court that put a stay on the injunction.

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    Re: Ending US military gay ban 'won't harm war effort'

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    No the judge ordered an injunction on DADT. Do you know what an injunction is?

    Judge orders 'don't ask, don't tell' injunction - Yahoo! News

    Apparently you do not.

    The Pentagon did not simply say, "Oh the courts said this is unconstitutional so we better stop" the judge issued a world wide injunction forcing them to stop.
    An injuction is a court order. Thanks for the insult.

    Of course, if it was the order you believe it is, then the President would not disobey it would he? Or is he above the law? The judge's order was to declare DADT unconstitutional. It was the Pentagon that went ahead without Commander-in-Chief guidance to end DADT, which was already ignored by over half the military. Your facts are not the facts you think. But who cares about the insignificant details you are so enchanted with? The fact is that without President Obama reversing the Pentagon's order to the branches, gays would be enlisting today with their boyfriends. Or would they? My guess is that nothing will change and that gays will then have to find a new excuse inwhich to cry "persecution."

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