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Thread: Ending US military gay ban 'won't harm war effort'

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    Re: Ending US military gay ban 'won't harm war effort'

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    Whoever said that Republicans hold the exclusive rights to being idiots?
    Quote Originally Posted by OscarB63 View Post
    90% of the liberals you talk to
    But Deuce didn't say it. So really you're insulting him for something he never said at all. He said "the idiots in Congress" and you assume he was talking just about Republicans AND assumed he was Democrat and then accused him of being a hypocrite on those two assumptions.

    I can't make it any clearer.

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    Re: Ending US military gay ban 'won't harm war effort'

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    But Deuce didn't say it. So really you're insulting him for something he never said at all. He said "the idiots in Congress" and you assume he was talking just about Republicans AND assumed he was Democrat and then accused him of being a hypocrite on those two assumptions.

    I can't make it any clearer.
    get your panties in a wad and randomly accuse people of crap they haven't done much? I never said Duece said anything. I said 90% of liberals will say that republicans hold the exclusive rights to being idiots.

    I never said Duece was a liberal
    I never said that, if he was a liberal, he was in the 90%

    Deuce is a big boy, he doesn't need you to fight his non-existant battles for him
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    Re: Ending US military gay ban 'won't harm war effort'

    It's Veteran's Day, and I want to put out a Thank You to all those who served.
    You've freed hundreds of millions of people from tyranny, and kept us safe.

    Thank You, and God Bless You and your families.

    .
    The Clintons are what happens...
    when you have NO MORAL COMPASS.

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    Re: Ending US military gay ban 'won't harm war effort'

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    AFP: Ending US military gay ban 'won't harm war effort'

    As some of you may have recalled, Marine General John Amos, the new top Marine commander, argued that any changes could hurt the Marine corps’ effectiveness. He cited that 95% of Marines were worried about the repeal of the ban against openly gay soldier based on show of hands at open town hall style meetings

    To recap, the DADT policy has been found...

    -By a federal court to be unconstitutional in how it is enforced
    -By a federal court to endanger national security as a resulting of losing vital units
    -To be opposed by 70-80% of Americans
    -To be irrelevant to most troops

    Furthermore, the December lame duck session of Congress will likely be the last chance that the policy will be repealed despite all these overwhelming factors against it. Once Republicans take control of the House next year, it will be at least another 2 years before the policy can be repealed. Republicans have an enormous incentive to make sure this policy is not repealed because it would likely mean that Obama would lose many of his gay constituents and financial backers and would find himself considerably worse off come 2012. It also speaks of the mountain gay rights activists have to climb when they cannot get such a policy repealed despite having a Democratically controlled Presidency and Congress for 2 years.
    First of all, the Marines will speak for the Marines. "Most troops" is deceiving when we use non-troop Air Men to pump up the numbers. If they cared to show the numbers as reflective of the individual branches then we would see a greater truth between the actual "troop" branches and the rest. A substantial number of soldiers and Marines were deployed during these questionaires and are not a part of this percentage. We are talking about hundreds of thousands of actual troops. Therefore, it being irrelevent to "most" troops is deceiving. It is actually a lie and highly reflective of mostly reservists, National Guardsmen, Coast Guard, and Air Men. It is only irrelevent for 70-80 percent of those who are largely not a part of the deployed and deploying forces. Second of all, let's look at some interesting consecutive notes here....

    1) DADT has been a burden upon the Marine Corps and the Army. And yes, as always, I can back this up. The numbers show sharp increase in court martials and administration seperations the year DADT began. The numbers steadily grew in all 4 branches over the years. After a while it became obvious that most "gays" voicing their sexual prefernece weren't gay and were usinjg DADT for a quick back to civilian life. However, post 9-11, the Marine Corps and the Army saw drastic drops in these numbers and they have stayed low ever since. Only the Air Force has an extreme amount of numbers forced out. The fact here is that the Marine Corps and the Army no longer wished to allow DADT to dwindle numbers on the eve of deployments and such. The Air Force have still not figured out where they fit into this war so they could afford to continue the DADT game. Since 9/11, the Marine Corps and Army have been largely looking the other way despite Washington's approval of DADT.

    2) President Obama requests the Pentagon conduct studies on how to impliment gays serving openly in the military. Not "if" they could serve, but "how to impliment" the inevitable.

    3) A federal judge declares DADT unconstitutional after a long suit.

    4) The Air Force immediately declares that they are through with DADT.

    5) In short time, the Pentagon issues an order to suspend DADT.

    6) BUT...... The Secretary of Defense immediately issues a later order to the Pentagon to continue DADT because that is the "law of the land." President Obama's step backwards is probably due to his need to continue keeping the military support and wants to end the policy with the military after the study is concluded next month. Another possibility is that he wishes for complete credit for ending DADT and allowing gays to serve openly and therefore ordered the military to "continue" heeding DADT until more convenient to the administration.


    The conclusion here is that the military is largely through pandering to DADT. It is Washington that is proving to be the brick wall. Another conclusion, given the numbers and the military actions, is that DADT was always more a Washington policy and less a military one.
    Last edited by MSgt; 11-11-10 at 11:45 AM.

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    Re: Ending US military gay ban 'won't harm war effort'

    I said 90% of liberals will say that republicans hold the exclusive rights to being idiots.
    You're Implying their counterparts are otherwise?
    Also... untrue anyways.

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    Re: Ending US military gay ban 'won't harm war effort'

    Quote Originally Posted by SE102 View Post
    You're Implying their counterparts are otherwise?
    I am implying nothing. why can't people take statements at face value instead of trying to read implications and insinuations into them that just aren't there????
    90% on either side of the aisle will claim that "the other guys" are idiots.
    The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.

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    Re: Ending US military gay ban 'won't harm war effort'

    Quote Originally Posted by OscarB63 View Post
    I am implying nothing. why can't people take statements at face value instead of trying to read implications and insinuations into them that just aren't there????
    Because people are always on the defense around here and they need their drama. People also find more pleasure in creating argument on the non-issues rather than display their absolute ineptness at the issues at hands. You can't talk about how up in the clouds Liberals are without also declaring that Conservatives have problems too. You can't talk about Islam without either declaring Christianity as imperfect or that most Muslims are good people. You can't talk about how stupid a politician on the Right is without choosing a politician on the Left to pick on too.

    Conversations and discussions always seem to get trumped by senseless argument, bickering, and jack-assery.

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    Re: Ending US military gay ban 'won't harm war effort'

    Quote Originally Posted by OscarB63 View Post
    I am implying nothing. why can't people take statements at face value instead of trying to read implications and insinuations into them that just aren't there????
    90% on either side of the aisle will claim that "the other guys" are idiots.
    Still probably untrue, however.

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    Re: Ending US military gay ban 'won't harm war effort'

    Quote Originally Posted by OscarB63 View Post
    90% of the liberals you talk to
    And few republicans see them selves as idiots either. Is it a surprise that idiots on both side don't see themselves?


    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Ending US military gay ban 'won't harm war effort'

    Ok then lets drop it, and get back to the actual topic.

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