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Thread: Ending US military gay ban 'won't harm war effort'

  1. #131
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    Re: Ending US military gay ban 'won't harm war effort'

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    It is a tough decision. However a hetrosexual service member can still have a family, a homosexual one cannot. See the difference?
    Well, look on the bright side. A homo soldier doesn't have to worry about an ex-spouse taking half his retirement, no matter how long they were married and no matter how long ago they were married.

    There are a few perks to being gay, in the service.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Ending US military gay ban 'won't harm war effort'

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Well, look on the bright side. A homo soldier doesn't have to worry about an ex-spouse taking half his retirement, no matter how long they were married and no matter how long ago they were married.

    There are a few perks to being gay, in the service.
    No, instead a "homo" soldier has to worry that if he is captured or killed that his partner will never be informed about it and will never recieve any of his benefits.

  3. #133
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    Re: Ending US military gay ban 'won't harm war effort'

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    And I agree with this. I was in no way saying that servicemembers are taught to sniff out or even confront those who might be gay. And, I think many just stay away from most political discussions, at least within larger groups altogether.

    I was saying that it is "taught" that gays will be detrimental to morale, discipline or unit cohesion. This is not in a formal environment, and not even those who are "teaching" it would realize that they are. And although some might come from people within a servicemember's own command, during one of those rare instances of political discussions, most would actually be coming from more influential military or formal military persons, such as that USMC Cmdt or other military brass who are or were against the repeal. And some may come from respected family members or family friends who were in.

    Now some just may get there beliefs from their own biases, but I would say most do "learn" it since the most common phrase used against the repeal of DADT is "it will be detrimental to morale, discipline, and unit cohesion". And something very similar to this phrase is found in the code against gays in the military itself. So, the belief that it will cause detriment could come inadvertently from training on the homosexual conduct policy as well.
    But, it's not. How many times do you have to be told that it isn't?
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Ending US military gay ban 'won't harm war effort'

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Why is it so goddamned hard for people to understand my position on gays serving in the military?

    is it because I don't tow the party line? Or is it because my ideas about gays in the military are too ****ing hard for supposedly smarter people to undersand?

    OR is it that the DADT abolitionist are so goddamned ignorant of the actual regulations and directives, that they don't even understand what they're opposed to?
    But you realize that if we removed DADT and allowed gays to serve openly, that they would be punished for sexual activity in the barracks the same way a hetrosexual couple would? The problem with enforcing the kind of conduct you are trying to outlaw entirely is to place the same rules around it which govern hetrosexual relations.

  5. #135
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    Re: Ending US military gay ban 'won't harm war effort'

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    You just tried to tell me that 1 year is worse than 4 years. How informed could you be?
    I never said that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

  6. #136
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    Re: Ending US military gay ban 'won't harm war effort'

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    But you realize that if we removed DADT and allowed gays to serve openly, that they would be punished for sexual activity in the barracks the same way a hetrosexual couple would? The problem with enforcing the kind of conduct you are trying to outlaw entirely is to place the same rules around it which govern hetrosexual relations.
    Ok. And you point is...?
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Ending US military gay ban 'won't harm war effort'

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Well, look on the bright side. A homo soldier doesn't have to worry about an ex-spouse taking half his retirement, no matter how long they were married and no matter how long ago they were married.

    There are a few perks to being gay, in the service.
    Also you can do accompanied tours to Korea now, they've got all kinds of extra family size houses of there after the post 9/11 draw down. Not that it has anything to do with the issue here, but just FYI.

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    Re: Ending US military gay ban 'won't harm war effort'

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    But you realize that if we removed DADT and allowed gays to serve openly, that they would be punished for sexual activity in the barracks the same way a hetrosexual couple would? The problem with enforcing the kind of conduct you are trying to outlaw entirely is to place the same rules around it which govern hetrosexual relations.
    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Ok. And you point is...?
    That kind of conduct wouldn't be ignored in many cases, because a General Officer doesn't have to get personally involved. So you'd actually get what you want, which is better enforcement. Of course you'd have to compromise in a way and say its acceptable for a service member to have a gay sexual encounter in a hotel room off post or at his private quarters anywhere else.

  9. #139
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    Re: Ending US military gay ban 'won't harm war effort'

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    But, it's not. How many times do you have to be told that it isn't?
    It is. You just don't see it.

    So are you going to answer my questions? If you weren't taught that gays serving openly might be detrimental to morale, unit cohesion and discipline, then where did you get your beliefs? Do you believe that gays serving openly might be detrimental to morale, unit cohesion and discipline or do you have some other reason to oppose gays serving openly?
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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    Re: Ending US military gay ban 'won't harm war effort'

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    I never said that.
    That is exactly what you just did. You are so selective in your thinking regarding this issue that it is sad. A gay soldier cannot openly date, marry, or start a family the entire time they are in the service or they will get kicked out.

    How did you reply to that argument? Oh, well some straight soldiers have to be away from their families for a year!

    It seems that you are perfectly fine with the idea that gay soldiers have to choose between starting a family and serving their country.

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