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Thread: Ending US military gay ban 'won't harm war effort'

  1. #121
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    Re: Ending US military gay ban 'won't harm war effort'

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    The same thing applies.
    Well that was stupid. This is clearly not sinking into your brain.

    If I get married to a man and adopt children while I am serving, then I will likely get kicked out.

    I have to choose between forming a family or serving my country. There are no heterosexual soldiers who have to face that choice.

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    Re: Ending US military gay ban 'won't harm war effort'

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    So, because of that, seniro NCO's teach the soldiers in their charge to sniff out gays and expose them?

    Again, I never received that directive during my 12 years. Nor, did I issue any such directive as a senior NCO. I doubt very seriously, that you'll find anyone that did.

    What the hell do I know. Right?
    I have to contribute and add that no one I know who's been in the military or just entered it with my graduating class has any kind of training or direction teaching us to sniff out gays.

    In fact the current guidance is to stay as far away as possible from the issue and you are actively encouraged to ignore any kind of behavior that could be considered homosexual unless it occurs in training areas, during duty hours, or in shared quarters, such as your barracks.

    The reason is because its such a massive pain in the ass to start the process to chapter someone out of the Army for homosexual conduct, and it almost always makes for bad press as well. It also must be done through a court martial and the General Officer level, and those guys always want to focus on more important issues.

    In fact, and I know Apdst will go nuts when i say this, people often ignore homosexual conduct when it occurs because of all the hassle enforcing DADT involves. In some situations a punishment would have been issued if it was simply heterosexual sex at an inappropriate time or place, however because its now homosexual conduct and requires a massively larger amount of the Army's time and money it sometimes goes ignored.

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    Re: Ending US military gay ban 'won't harm war effort'

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Well that was stupid. This is clearly not sinking into your brain.

    If I get married to a man and adopt children while I am serving, then I will likely get kicked out.

    I have to choose between forming a family or serving my country. There are no heterosexual soldiers who have to face that choice.
    Another completely uninformed opinion about the service.

    Join the Army, do a tour in Korea, get PS'ed at a forward camp and then tell your family they have to stay in the states for a year, without you, because you can't have dependents at that duty station.

    Then, you can tell us about the tough family decisions that heteros have to make, while in the service.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Ending US military gay ban 'won't harm war effort'

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Another completely uninformed opinion about the service.

    Join the Army, do a tour in Korea, get PS'ed at a forward camp and then tell your family they have to stay in the states for a year, without you, because you can't have dependents at that duty station.

    Then, you can tell us about the tough family decisions that heteros have to make, while in the service.
    It is a tough decision. However a hetrosexual service member can still have a family, a homosexual one cannot. See the difference?

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    Re: Ending US military gay ban 'won't harm war effort'

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Another completely uninformed opinion about the service.

    Join the Army, do a tour in Korea, get PS'ed at a forward camp and then tell your family they have to stay in the states for a year, without you, because you can't have dependents at that duty station.

    Then, you can tell us about the tough family decisions that heteros have to make, while in the service.
    Dude, if anyone is uninformed it is you. Try not being able to form any family for the enitre time you are in the military. One year? That is laughable compared to some gay soldiers who spend 4 years in the military before they can date, get married, and start a family.

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    Re: Ending US military gay ban 'won't harm war effort'

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    I have to contribute and add that no one I know who's been in the military or just entered it with my graduating class has any kind of training or direction teaching us to sniff out gays.

    In fact the current guidance is to stay as far away as possible from the issue and you are actively encouraged to ignore any kind of behavior that could be considered homosexual unless it occurs in training areas, during duty hours, or in shared quarters, such as your barracks.

    The reason is because its such a massive pain in the ass to start the process to chapter someone out of the Army for homosexual conduct, and it almost always makes for bad press as well. It also must be done through a court martial and the General Officer level, and those guys always want to focus on more important issues.

    In fact, and I know Apdst will go nuts when i say this, people often ignore homosexual conduct when it occurs because of all the hassle enforcing DADT involves. In some situations a punishment would have been issued if it was simply heterosexual sex at an inappropriate time or place, however because its now homosexual conduct and requires a massively larger amount of the Army's time and money it sometimes goes ignored.
    Why is it so goddamned hard for people to understand my position on gays serving in the military?

    is it because I don't tow the party line? Or is it because my ideas about gays in the military are too ****ing hard for supposedly smarter people to undersand?

    OR is it that the DADT abolitionist are so goddamned ignorant of the actual regulations and directives, that they don't even understand what they're opposed to?
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Ending US military gay ban 'won't harm war effort'

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Dude, if anyone is uninformed it is you. Try not being able to form any family for the enitre time you are in the military. One year? That is laughable compared to some gay soldiers who spend 4 years in the military before they can date, get married, and start a family.

    Try actually serving in the military and then tell me about how uninformed I am. If you actually do, you'll understand.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Ending US military gay ban 'won't harm war effort'

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Dude, if anyone is uninformed it is you. Try not being able to form any family for the enitre time you are in the military. One year? That is laughable compared to some gay soldiers who spend 4 years in the military before they can date, get married, and start a family.
    Whats really weird is that if you are gay, then retire and come out of the closet, you still get every penny of retirement even if the government knows you are gay.

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    Re: Ending US military gay ban 'won't harm war effort'

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Try actually serving in the military and then tell me about how uninformed I am. If you actually do, you'll understand.
    You just tried to tell me that 1 year is worse than 4 years. How informed could you be?

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    Re: Ending US military gay ban 'won't harm war effort'

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    I have to contribute and add that no one I know who's been in the military or just entered it with my graduating class has any kind of training or direction teaching us to sniff out gays.

    In fact the current guidance is to stay as far away as possible from the issue and you are actively encouraged to ignore any kind of behavior that could be considered homosexual unless it occurs in training areas, during duty hours, or in shared quarters, such as your barracks.

    The reason is because its such a massive pain in the ass to start the process to chapter someone out of the Army for homosexual conduct, and it almost always makes for bad press as well. It also must be done through a court martial and the General Officer level, and those guys always want to focus on more important issues.

    In fact, and I know Apdst will go nuts when i say this, people often ignore homosexual conduct when it occurs because of all the hassle enforcing DADT involves. In some situations a punishment would have been issued if it was simply heterosexual sex at an inappropriate time or place, however because its now homosexual conduct and requires a massively larger amount of the Army's time and money it sometimes goes ignored.
    And I agree with this. I was in no way saying that servicemembers are taught to sniff out or even confront those who might be gay. And, I think many just stay away from most political discussions, at least within larger groups altogether.

    I was saying that it is "taught" that gays will be detrimental to morale, discipline or unit cohesion. This is not in a formal environment, and not even those who are "teaching" it would realize that they are. And although some might come from people within a servicemember's own command, during one of those rare instances of political discussions, most would actually be coming from more influential military or formal military persons, such as that USMC Cmdt or other military brass who are or were against the repeal. And some may come from respected family members or family friends who were in.

    Now some just may get there beliefs from their own biases, but I would say most do "learn" it since the most common phrase used against the repeal of DADT is "it will be detrimental to morale, discipline, and unit cohesion". And something very similar to this phrase is found in the code against gays in the military itself. So, the belief that it will cause detriment could come inadvertently from training on the homosexual conduct policy as well.
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