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Thread: Amnesty International Wants Bush Prosecuted for Admitted Waterboarding

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    Re: Amnesty International Wants Bush Prosecuted for Admitted Waterboarding

    preeminent source on al qaeda

    cooperated---to an extraordinary extent---only when his spirit was broken

    cross-referencing material from different detainees and leveraging information from one to extract more detail from another, the cia and fbi went on to round up operatives both in the united states and abroad

    built a list of 70 individuals, many never heard of before

    unparalleled source in deciphering al-qaeda's strategic doctrine, key operatives and likely targets

    described in considerable detail the traits and profiles that al qaeda sought and how the terrorist organization might conduct surveillance in the us

    according to the inspector general's report and other documents

    as related by wapo

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    Re: Amnesty International Wants Bush Prosecuted for Admitted Waterboarding

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Why do you continue to buy the rhetoric of leftwingers with an agenda. Amnesia International should have more to deal with than 3 high value al Qaeda animals that were interrogated at GITMO. How about the human shields that al Qaeda uses, how about the cutting off of heads, how about flying planes into buildings killing innocent civilians, how about strapping bombs on their backs and blowing up market places?

    There is plenty of evidence on both sides regarding Waterboarding, the question is why do you buy the left's version and not the right? Why is there such passion for this issue if not just pure hatred for President Bush, all based upon ignorance?
    I think the "cutting off heads" part is what discourages Amnesty from getting involved over there. At Gitmo they're guarded by US soldiers.
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    Re: Amnesty International Wants Bush Prosecuted for Admitted Waterboarding

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    As presented many times before, we know that the second wave Cheney spoke of was uncovered before KSM was even captured....
    And any of this is evidence that KSM would have been more forthcoming if we'd just given him his three squares, a prayer blanket, and a copy of the Koran how? Can you at least show us your Ouija Board or whatever it is that gives you special insight into all of the information KSM revealed, as well as what KSM would have revealed if we'd not waterboarded him?
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    Re: Amnesty International Wants Bush Prosecuted for Admitted Waterboarding

    Quote Originally Posted by Ahlevah View Post
    And any of this is evidence that KSM would have been more forthcoming if we'd just given him his three squares, a prayer blanket, and a copy of the Koran how? Can you at least show us your Ouija Board or whatever it is that gives you special insight into all of the information KSM revealed, as well as what KSM would have revealed if we'd not waterboarded him?
    First, no one suggest that. The extremes are never the only options. What has been suggested is that we use proven methods that do work. However, since we did learn of the second wave, for example, without torture, and can't find anything concrete we can present that KSM did give us, and we can point to misinformation we got by torture that we did use, it is fair to ask you why you have ushc faith in something that so many say is ineffective and back it with research (visit your library)?

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Amnesty International Wants Bush Prosecuted for Admitted Waterboarding

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    However, since we did learn of the second wave, for example, without torture, and can't find anything concrete we can present that KSM did give us, and we can point to misinformation we got by torture that we did use, it is fair to ask you why you have ushc faith in something that so many say is ineffective and back it with research (visit your library)?
    First of all, some of the information outlined in the Post article I think was significant. Secondly, we as average citizens can not assume that we're privy to everything that was learned from these detainess. Finally, don't forget that we had Nancy Pelosi to keep the CIA honest and egg it on to do more.
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    Re: Amnesty International Wants Bush Prosecuted for Admitted Waterboarding

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Incognito View Post
    Actually, it's proper to wait until Bush is out of office to prosecute him for war crimes. Prosecutions of sitting heads of state for war crimes are generally discouraged under international law.

    Maybe Congress should have impeached Bush, maybe they shouldn't have. But new evidence has come to light in the form of a confession from Bush himself. That's more than enough to move on a war crimes prosecution.
    First, who would prosecute Bush ? If the prosecution were to be done in the United States, then under US law, "criminal intent" would have to be established. (ex. If you stumbled and your elbow hit a window and broke it, then yes you "admit", to breaking that window, but since you didn't intend to do that, you are not guilty of a criminal act).
    Since, Bush has only admitted to following the advice of his legal staffers, who told him the waterboarding was legal, then if it wasn't, Bush does not fall into the category of being liable for criminal intent. Thus, Bush's "confession" is tantamount to vindication.

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    Re: Amnesty International Wants Bush Prosecuted for Admitted Waterboarding

    Quote Originally Posted by Ahlevah View Post
    First of all, some of the information outlined in the Post article I think was significant. Secondly, we as average citizens can not assume that we're privy to everything that was learned from these detainess. Finally, don't forget that we had Nancy Pelosi to keep the CIA honest and egg it on to do more.
    This too is a flawed thought. We don't need to be privey to everything. We merely need actual evidence. Not claims, but actual evidence. You seem to be impressed that they claimed they got information, even if they can present nothign specific at all that would support their claim. Can you understand that someone more skeptical would not be so impressed?

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Amnesty International Wants Bush Prosecuted for Admitted Waterboarding

    Quote Originally Posted by megaprogman View Post
    Amnesty International Calls to Prosecute Bush for Admitted Waterboarding



    I support this and basically feel that these activities constitute a war crime.
    Seems enhanced interrogation techniques, what you call a war crime was fundamental in getting Terrorist Number 1.

    Would you like to recant your idiotic statement, or do you stand by it?

    And how about the remainder of you folks that expressed similar sentiments? For without that info gained by adding water and not stirring, there wouldn't be:

    1. Osama bin Fishfood at the bottom of the Arabian Sea

    2. We wouldn't have scored a "Mother Load" of intel from his shack in Pakistan, and

    3. Terroristas around the world would never have gotten the message on Hitler's Death Day that we don't give up.

    I guess you support invading an allies sovereignty, assassinating a leader of a terror organization, not going to the UN, and doing this without international assistance, nor their knowledge.

    My... that is a serious about face!

    As you were.

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    Last edited by zimmer; 05-03-11 at 02:27 PM.
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    Re: Amnesty International Wants Bush Prosecuted for Admitted Waterboarding

    Zimmer, you're factually incorrect:


    Funny. You would think that if the C.I.A.’s interrogation of high-value detainees was all it took, the U.S. government would have succeeded in locating bin Laden before 2006, which is when the C.I.A.’s custody of so-called “high-value detainees” ended. Instead, after the Supreme Court ruled that year that prisoners needed to be treated humanely in compliance with the Geneva Conventions, the C.I.A. was forced to turn its special detainees over to the military for detention and interrogation using more lawful tactics in Guantánamo Bay, Cuba. It took five more years before all the dots could be adequately connected.

    Many key details are still missing. But according to the New York Times, the turning point came when detainees being held in Guantánamo—not in the C.I.A.’s secret black-site prisons—revealed to American interrogators the pseudonym used by a key bin Laden courier, whom they also identified as a protégé of Khalid Sheikh Mohammed.



    Read more News Desk: Bin Laden Dead, Torture Debate Lives On : The New Yorker

    Tortured stope din 2006. We didn't get the name until 2007. It simpley couldn't have produced the name. This suggests that other methods were more effective.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Amnesty International Wants Bush Prosecuted for Admitted Waterboarding

    Boo, the name of the courier that led to Osama was given by KSM in Gitmo. Was this information obtained through waterboarding? If it was does it make the case that waterboarding works and should be continued?

    WikiLeaks: Osama bin Laden killed after tip-offs from Guantanamo - Telegraph


    Oh and btw, the NYT is not a credible source.
    Last edited by SgtRock; 05-03-11 at 02:39 PM.
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