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Thread: Amnesty International Wants Bush Prosecuted for Admitted Waterboarding

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    Re: Amnesty International Wants Bush Prosecuted for Admitted Waterboarding

    And you think this means what, exactly? Also, it's not new or unknown by myself or others. So in order to be convincing, you would have to present something new in either your argument or in the actual facts.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Amnesty International Wants Bush Prosecuted for Admitted Waterboarding

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    So in order to be convincing, you would have to present something new in either your argument or in the actual facts.
    So this is not new to you? You just wrote it off as "little to no evidence anything really valuable was gained from torture"?
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    Re: Amnesty International Wants Bush Prosecuted for Admitted Waterboarding

    Quote Originally Posted by Ahlevah View Post
    So this is not new to you? You just wrote it off as "little to no evidence anything really valuable was gained from torture"?
    No, it's not new. It was published in 2009. It is those saying they got things, but very little specifics. Cheny then pointed to the second wave, only to have that prove impossibale as it was thwarted before KSM was even captured. And let's not forget, you also have to show this could not have been gained any other way. it has to be important, significant, and not able to get any other way in order to conivnce.

    I realize that for some, just having them say it was good is enough. But I do believe the standard should be higher. Many claims have been made that proved false, like the KSM second claim. So, yes, I need more.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Amnesty International Wants Bush Prosecuted for Admitted Waterboarding

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    And you think this means what, exactly?
    you have to ask?

    LOL!

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    Re: Amnesty International Wants Bush Prosecuted for Admitted Waterboarding

    Quote Originally Posted by The Prof View Post
    you have to ask?

    LOL!
    Yeah, as it is not new or convincing.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Amnesty International Wants Bush Prosecuted for Admitted Waterboarding

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    (Y)ou... have to show this could not have been gained any other way. it has to be important, significant, and not able to get any other way in order to conivnce.
    Well, we'll never know, will we:

    The debate over the effectiveness of subjecting detainees to psychological and physical pressure is in some ways irresolvable, because it is impossible to know whether less coercive methods would have achieved the same result.

    How a Detainee Became An Asset - washingtonpost.com
    You're being disingenuous when you set up an impossible condition and expect me to satisfy it. Even the guy from Amnesty International said, "This is a fool's argument in any event. There is no way to prove or disprove the counterfactual." Really, I could be just as disingenuous and say that if you maintain that other methods would have worked then the burden is on you to prove it. Good luck.
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    Re: Amnesty International Wants Bush Prosecuted for Admitted Waterboarding

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    No, it's not new. It was published in 2009.
    Way to alter the intent of my question. Why don't you try answering the question based upon what I wrote? (Or are your reading skills in need of a boost? ) I asked if it was new to you.
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    Re: Amnesty International Wants Bush Prosecuted for Admitted Waterboarding

    Quote Originally Posted by Ahlevah View Post
    Way to alter the intent of my question. Why don't you try answering the question based upon what I wrote? (Or are your reading skills in need of a boost? ) I asked if it was new to you.
    Perhaps you could read the rest of what I wrote:

    It is those saying they got things, but very little specifics. Cheny then pointed to the second wave, only to have that prove impossibale as it was thwarted before KSM was even captured. And let's not forget, you also have to show this could not have been gained any other way. it has to be important, significant, and not able to get any other way in order to conivnce.

    I realize that for some, just having them say it was good is enough. But I do believe the standard should be higher. Many claims have been made that proved false, like the KSM second claim. So, yes, I need more.
    It answers your question.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Amnesty International Wants Bush Prosecuted for Admitted Waterboarding

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Perhaps you could read the rest of what I wrote... It answers your question.
    I did, and, well, no, it doesn't. Nothing you wrote indicates whether liberaldom in general or just you needed convincing that useful information was obtained or if less coercive methods of interrogation would have been just as successful in obtaining information. In any case, as I already indicated, either instance would be engaging in a "fool's argument" because there is no way to prove the information could or could not have been obtained using other methods of interrogation. If you still want to go ahead and try to prove it could have, go ahead and knock yourself out. For my part, I'm prepared to move on and discuss other things, like my general impression the Obama Administration felt it had no overarching duty to convince anyone of anything:

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    Re: Amnesty International Wants Bush Prosecuted for Admitted Waterboarding

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    It is those saying they got things, but very little specifics. Cheny then pointed to the second wave, only to have that prove impossibale as it was thwarted before KSM was even captured. And let's not forget, you also have to show this could not have been gained any other way. it has to be important, significant, and not able to get any other way in order to conivnce.

    I realize that for some, just having them say it was good is enough. But I do believe the standard should be higher. Many claims have been made that proved false, like the KSM second claim. So, yes, I need more.

    You need more? How much more? What do you need to see? Because when it comes to taking the word of the nations leaders you seem to be just fine with it now that your ideological outlook is embodied in the WH?


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