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Thread: Amnesty International Wants Bush Prosecuted for Admitted Waterboarding

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    Re: Amnesty International Wants Bush Prosecuted for Admitted Waterboarding

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    Prior to three known instances of waterboarding, a Justice Department lawyer signed a secret legal opinion claiming terror detainees were not protected by the Geneva Convention's ban on torture.

    3 AQ operatives were waterboarded in 2002-03, with the direct approval of President Bush.

    In 2004, that secret legal opinion was rescinded. Subsequent to that rescind, the DOJ signed other legal opinions declaring that extreme interrogation methods could be authorized by the President.

    In 2006, the Supreme Court ruled that Gitmo detainees were subject to the protections of the Geneva Convention.

    In 2006, the CIA banned waterboarding from its bag of tricks.

    In 2008, the House Judiciary Committee asked the AG if he was going to prosecute interrogators who waterboarded. He replied that the Justice Department could not investigate or prosecute people for actions that it had authorized earlier. All above paraphrased from here: Cheney Defends U.S. Use Of Waterboarding - CBS News

    In 2006, passage of the Military Commissions Act provided retroactive legal protection to those who carried out waterboarding and other coercive interrogation techniques. Excerpted from: Waterboarding Historically Controversial - washingtonpost.com

    Here’s a citation for the Military Commissions Act: Military Commissions Act of 2006 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    In January 2009, Obama specifically made waterboarding illegal. (I find it interesting that our President can write laws….) Waterboarding - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    In 2009, Obama assures the CIA that no one will be prosecuted for extreme interrogation methods that were deemed legal at the time. FoxNews.com - Obama Administration Says No Charges Against CIA Officials for Waterboarding

    Actually one can't look at this timeline and not believe that laws were broken. Or, at the very least, that there was a massive CYA going on "just in case."

    So, me personally? I'm back to this, my original post on this thread:
    And I'm back to stating clearly, good people don't excuse torture.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Amnesty International Wants Bush Prosecuted for Admitted Waterboarding

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    The truth of the matter remains, Bush was told by attorneys that Waterboarding wasn't illegal and Bush acted on that advice.
    Don't you mean a attorney, a attorney in the name of John Yoo?


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    Re: Amnesty International Wants Bush Prosecuted for Admitted Waterboarding

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    He was given the answer he wanted. It was not likely an honest effort. You say give me cover, and they seek to do so. The fact is, as the court ruled, it was already law.
    If it was already illegal, then why didn't Democrats, including Nancy Pelosi, object to it when they were given an extensive briefing in September, 2002 on the interrogation of Abu Zubaydah, which apparently included waterboarding:

    "CIA officers briefed truthfully on the interrogation of al Qaeda operative Abu Zubaydah, describing 'the enhanced techniques that had been employed,'" Mr. Panetta wrote in a memo to agency employees. He was referring to an alleged senior al Qaeda detainee in CIA custody in September 2002, when Ms. Pelosi attended a briefing in her capacity as the senior Democrat on the House Intelligence Committee.

    "Let me be clear: It is not our policy or practice to mislead Congress," he wrote. "That is against our laws and our values."

    Other intelligence officials also contradicted Ms. Pelosi's account of the briefing, saying her assertion that she wasn't told waterboarding was in use at the time is wrong. "That's 180 degrees different from what the CIA's records show," an intelligence official said.

    During the month before Ms. Pelosi's briefing in September 2002, Mr. Zubaydah was subjected to 83 instances of waterboarding. The procedure, which critics say is torture, entails dousing a captive's face to simulate drowning.


    CIA Chief Rebuts Pelosi on Briefings - WSJ.com
    If Bush should be prosecuted as a war criminal, then why not prosecute Pelosi, too?
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    Re: Amnesty International Wants Bush Prosecuted for Admitted Waterboarding

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    And I'm back to stating clearly, good people don't excuse torture.
    Is Nancy Pelosi a good person?
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    Re: Amnesty International Wants Bush Prosecuted for Admitted Waterboarding

    Quote Originally Posted by Ahlevah View Post
    Is Nancy Pelosi a good person?
    Don't know her well enough to know. But good people, no matter what party they belong to, don't excuse torture.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Amnesty International Wants Bush Prosecuted for Admitted Waterboarding

    Quote Originally Posted by Ahlevah View Post
    If it was already illegal, then why didn't Democrats, including Nancy Pelosi, object to it when they were given an extensive briefing in September, 2002 on the interrogation of Abu Zubaydah, which apparently included waterboarding:



    If Bush should be prosecuted as a war criminal, then why not prosecute Pelosi, too?
    Prosecute all who let it go on for all I care, but be sure you have the facts accurate. However, whether she knew and excused it or not changes nothing concerning the law. The SCOTUS ruled on law, which means this was already illegal.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Amnesty International Wants Bush Prosecuted for Admitted Waterboarding

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Don't know her well enough to know. But good people, no matter what party they belong to, don't excuse torture.
    I think good people, including presidents, sometimes have to make tough choices, like when Harry Truman chose to drop two atomic weapons and in an instant obliterated two cities and hundreds of thousands of lives. The problem I see today is people want to take something that is at its core profane and try to sanitize it. When it comes to warfare, there is one law that trumps all others: don't lose.
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    Re: Amnesty International Wants Bush Prosecuted for Admitted Waterboarding

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Prosecute all who let it go on for all I care, but be sure you have the facts accurate. However, whether she knew and excused it or not changes nothing concerning the law. The SCOTUS ruled on law, which means this was already illegal.
    Unlike the POTUS, the SCOTUS has the luxury of not being directly responsible for securing the lives of American citizens.
    Last edited by Ahlevah; 11-16-10 at 12:43 PM.
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    Re: Amnesty International Wants Bush Prosecuted for Admitted Waterboarding

    Quote Originally Posted by Ahlevah View Post
    I think good people, including presidents, sometimes have to make tough choices, like when Harry Truman chose to drop two atomic weapons and in an instant obliterated two cities and hundreds of thousands of lives. The problem I see today is people want to take something that is at its core profane and try to sanitize it. When it comes to warfare, there is one law that trumps all others: don't lose.
    Let me ask you, could we have lost? Could al Qaeda actually beat us? Iraq? Afghanistan? All of them together? I suspect you know as well as I do that they could not. So, there wasn't that kind of threat.

    There may be a place where law doesn't matter, and we have to with a heavy heart break our own moral code. But we shouldn't pretend this was that place. A country who prides itself as being made of laws, has to obey those laws. A people who claim to be moral must act moral and not just talk the talk. The president did a bad thing, an immoral thing, an illegal thing. And did so not openly, but dishonestly. I see no reason to respect that.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Amnesty International Wants Bush Prosecuted for Admitted Waterboarding

    Quote Originally Posted by Ahlevah View Post
    Unlike the POTUS, the SCOTUS has the luxury of not being directly responsible for securing the lives of American citizens.
    Really? I thought that's what laws did. Bush didn't secure anyone's lives with torture. None of Bush's claims have held up that I know of. And before you can clima lives were saved, you have to both show we got something that saved lives, and that we could not have gotten it any other way.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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