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Thread: Amnesty International Wants Bush Prosecuted for Admitted Waterboarding

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    Re: Amnesty International Wants Bush Prosecuted for Admitted Waterboarding

    Quote Originally Posted by SheWolf View Post
    I think everything is about him vs liberals.. It doesn't matter if you aren't a liberal, if you disagree with him, you suddenly are a liberal

    I guess bls.gov proves that especially in a thread about water boarding

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    Re: Amnesty International Wants Bush Prosecuted for Admitted Waterboarding

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    I'm sure you don't. But whatever the alw requires. Nothing more; nothing less.
    Sorry but the law didn't outlaw waterboarding until the Supreme Court ruledin 2006. The three al Qaeda operatvies were waterboarded well before that when the President got the advice that it was legal. The law says move on and Bush cannot be retroactivly prosecuted, keep foaming at the mouth.

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    Re: Amnesty International Wants Bush Prosecuted for Admitted Waterboarding

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    The Geneva Convention expressly addresses that all bets are off if the enemy is shielding, as an example, it's munitions storage facility in the midst of a civilian population. Or its troops in close proximity to a hospital. We do a better job that any nation on earth in our attempts to protect civilian populations. All the while, our enemies are killing civilians like freakin' flies.
    I don't think the issue of the legality of targeting killings (assassinations) using drones is that cut and dry, beginning with the fact that we're not at war with Yemen and killing significant numbers of non-combatants involves issues of International Humanitarian Law:

    The United Nations Basic Principles for the Use of Force and Firearms by Law Enforcement Officials (UN Basic Principles) set out the international legal standard for the use of force by police:

    Law enforcement officials shall not use firearms against persons except in
    self-defense or defense of others against the imminent threat of death or
    serious injury, to prevent the perpetration of a particularly serious crime
    involving grave threat to life, to arrest a person presenting such a danger
    and resisting their authority, or to prevent his or her escape, and only when
    less extreme means are insufficient to achieve these objectives. In any
    event, intentional lethal use of firearms may only be made when strictly
    unavoidable in order to protect life.4

    The United States has failed to follow these rules by using combat drones in places where no actual armed conflict was occurring or where the U.S. was not involved in the armed conflict.

    Lawful Use of Combat Drones, Mary Ellen O’Connell
    And:

    The Legal Adviser to the Department of State recently outlined the Government’s legal justifications for targeted killings. They were said to be based on its asserted right to self-defence, as well as on IHL, on the basis that the US is “in an armed conflict with Al Qaeda, as well as the Taliban and associated forces.”41 While this statement is an important starting point, it does not address some of the most central legal issues including: the scope of the armed conflict in which the US asserts it is engaged, the criteria for individuals who may be targeted and killed, the existence of any substantive or procedural safeguards to ensure the legality and accuracy of killings, and the existence of accountability mechanisms.

    United Nations General Assembly Human Rights Council Report of the Special Rapporteur on Extrajudicial, Summary or Arbitrary Executions, Philip Alston
    We see indignation to the point of wanting Bush tried as a war criminal for waterboarding three terrorists (or "suspected" terrorists), but Obama purportedly kills dozens of women and children in a single drone strike in a country we're not at war with and we hear nary a peep. Why is that? About all we get from non-academics is a word from someone like this member of Obama's Gitmo fan club:

    “We say that Bush was the president of torture, but Obama is the president of extra-judicial killing. The difference between the two is that while one used to extra-judicially detain people, the other has gone a step further and extra-judicially kills them.”

    Obama is president of extra-judicial killing, says ex-Guantanamo inmate - The Irish Times - Sat, Nov 13, 2010
    Нава́льный 2018

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    Re: Amnesty International Wants Bush Prosecuted for Admitted Waterboarding

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Sorry but the law didn't outlaw waterboarding until the Supreme Court ruledin 2006. The three al Qaeda operatvies were waterboarded well before that when the President got the advice that it was legal. The law says move on and Bush cannot be retroactivly prosecuted, keep foaming at the mouth.
    The spurpreme court didn't make law. They ruled on law, meaning it was illegal before they ruled.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Amnesty International Wants Bush Prosecuted for Admitted Waterboarding

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    The spurpreme court didn't make law. They ruled on law, meaning it was illegal before they ruled.
    The truth of the matter remains, Bush was told by attorneys that Waterboarding wasn't illegal and Bush acted on that advice. He will not be prosecuted by anyone for his actions regardless of the vitriol from the left and Amnesia International. Bush briefed Congress on what he was doing and there was no outrage there either. I am still waiting for you to tell us all what you would like to see happen to Bush for Waterboarding 3 al Qaeda leaders? You keep running as usual.

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    Re: Amnesty International Wants Bush Prosecuted for Admitted Waterboarding

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    The truth of the matter remains, Bush was told by attorneys that Waterboarding wasn't illegal and Bush acted on that advice. He will not be prosecuted by anyone for his actions regardless of the vitriol from the left and Amnesia International. Bush briefed Congress on what he was doing and there was no outrage there either. I am still waiting for you to tell us all what you would like to see happen to Bush for Waterboarding 3 al Qaeda leaders? You keep running as usual.
    He was given the answer he wanted. It was not likely an honest effort. You say give me cover, and they seek to do so. The fact is, as the court ruled, it was already law.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Amnesty International Wants Bush Prosecuted for Admitted Waterboarding

    Prior to three known instances of waterboarding, a Justice Department lawyer signed a secret legal opinion claiming terror detainees were not protected by the Geneva Convention's ban on torture.

    3 AQ operatives were waterboarded in 2002-03, with the direct approval of President Bush.

    In 2004, that secret legal opinion was rescinded. Subsequent to that rescind, the DOJ signed other legal opinions declaring that extreme interrogation methods could be authorized by the President.

    In 2006, the Supreme Court ruled that Gitmo detainees were subject to the protections of the Geneva Convention.

    In 2006, the CIA banned waterboarding from its bag of tricks.

    In 2008, the House Judiciary Committee asked the AG if he was going to prosecute interrogators who waterboarded. He replied that the Justice Department could not investigate or prosecute people for actions that it had authorized earlier. All above paraphrased from here: Cheney Defends U.S. Use Of Waterboarding - CBS News

    In 2006, passage of the Military Commissions Act provided retroactive legal protection to those who carried out waterboarding and other coercive interrogation techniques. Excerpted from: Waterboarding Historically Controversial - washingtonpost.com

    Here’s a citation for the Military Commissions Act: Military Commissions Act of 2006 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    In January 2009, Obama specifically made waterboarding illegal. (I find it interesting that our President can write laws….) Waterboarding - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    In 2009, Obama assures the CIA that no one will be prosecuted for extreme interrogation methods that were deemed legal at the time. FoxNews.com - Obama Administration Says No Charges Against CIA Officials for Waterboarding

    Actually one can't look at this timeline and not believe that laws were broken. Or, at the very least, that there was a massive CYA going on "just in case."

    So, me personally? I'm back to this, my original post on this thread:

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    If this gets legs, then we'll have an opportunity to more closely define torture in light of the treaties and laws that exist on the subject. Is waterboarding torture? There's sure to be a debate.
    The devil whispered in my ear, "You cannot withstand the storm." I whispered back, "I am ​the storm."

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    Re: Amnesty International Wants Bush Prosecuted for Admitted Waterboarding

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    He was given the answer he wanted. It was not likely an honest effort. You say give me cover, and they seek to do so. The fact is, as the court ruled, it was already law.
    Continue on, maybe Obamacare will offer help for BDS.

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    Re: Amnesty International Wants Bush Prosecuted for Admitted Waterboarding

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Continue on, maybe Obamacare will offer help for BDS.
    This means you can't refute the point. Good. Glad we agree.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Amnesty International Wants Bush Prosecuted for Admitted Waterboarding

    Quote Originally Posted by SheWolf View Post
    I think everything is about him vs liberals.. It doesn't matter if you aren't a liberal, if you disagree with him, you suddenly are a liberal
    When all you've got is a hammer, everything looks like a nail.

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