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Thread: Amnesty International Wants Bush Prosecuted for Admitted Waterboarding

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    Re: Amnesty International Wants Bush Prosecuted for Admitted Waterboarding

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Why would a that make a difference? It is the act and not the who that is important. Most of those we waterbaorded were civilians as well, belonging to no army.
    Just saying. . .
    Why would that make a difference? Well, if you can't see that, I don't know what to tell you.

    If you believe the Gitmo detainees are innocent civilians, then that is what you should argue.
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    Re: Amnesty International Wants Bush Prosecuted for Admitted Waterboarding

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    At least be realistic. Waterboarding as done at Gitmo is not this:



    You lose all credibility when you argue that it's the same thing.
    Again, read my links. All of those are different forms of the same torture. They are not different tortures. All of them are the water torture. It isn't the drinking of water, but the suffocation that is the torture.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Amnesty International Wants Bush Prosecuted for Admitted Waterboarding

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    Why would that make a difference? Well, if you can't see that, I don't know what to tell you.

    If you believe the Gitmo detainees are innocent civilians, then that is what you should argue.
    Did I say anything about innocent? In neither case was innocent used. Just civilian, belong to no army. But we have tortured innocent people. That's a fact.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Amnesty International Wants Bush Prosecuted for Admitted Waterboarding

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Again, read my links. All of those are different forms of the same torture. They are not different tortures. All of them are the water torture. It isn't the drinking of water, but the suffocation that is the torture.
    No! There's a huge difference between a first- and third-degree burn. That's what we have here. For you to say that the Japanese method posted here is the very same thing as we did at Gitmo is reeeedickalus.
    The devil whispered in my ear, "You cannot withstand the storm." I whispered back, "I am ​the storm."

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    Re: Amnesty International Wants Bush Prosecuted for Admitted Waterboarding

    Quote Originally Posted by liblady View Post
    what is the difference in the below and what bush authorized?



    Context of '1947: Japanese Soldier Who Waterboarded US Civilian Convicted of War Crime'
    I've read the page that you linked and the description of waterboarding you posted sounds like what we are calling waterboarding. I'm fairly certain that doesn't cover the extent of "water torture" that he employed and according to his trial, he also beat POW's with a club and burned them with cigarettes.

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    Re: Amnesty International Wants Bush Prosecuted for Admitted Waterboarding

    Quote Originally Posted by FederalRepublic View Post
    I've read the page that you linked and the description of waterboarding you posted sounds like what we are calling waterboarding. I'm fairly certain that doesn't cover the extent of "water torture" that he employed and according to his trial, he also beat POW's with a club and burned them with cigarettes.
    The civilian was strapped to a stretcher with his feet in the air and head towards the floor, and water was poured over his face, causing him to gasp for air until he agreed to talk. Asano is convicted and sentenced to 15 years of hard labor.

    isn't this what we did?

    Originally Posted by johnny_rebson:

    These are the same liberals who forgot how Iraq attacked us on 9/11.


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    Re: Amnesty International Wants Bush Prosecuted for Admitted Waterboarding

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Did I say anything about innocent? In neither case was innocent used. Just civilian, belong to no army. But we have tortured innocent people. That's a fact.
    The Geneva Convention protects people in uniform and innocent civilians. It does not protect terrorists. If you believe the people held at Gitmo are innocent, not terrorists, then argue that point.

    As to having tortured innocent people, of course, we have. We've killed 'em, too. Women and children and all the rest. Such are the spoils of war. I'll say it again, because one can't say it too much:

    There is no country in the history of the world that has done more in wartime to protect the innocents. We're not perfect. But we're as close to that as any nation has ever gotten.
    The devil whispered in my ear, "You cannot withstand the storm." I whispered back, "I am ​the storm."

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    Re: Amnesty International Wants Bush Prosecuted for Admitted Waterboarding

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    No! There's a huge difference between a first- and third-degree burn. That's what we have here. For you to say that the Japanese method posted here is the very same thing as we did at Gitmo is reeeedickalus.
    There's a difference in whether I steal 50,000 or 5 million, but both are still theft. I would not argue that stealing fifty thousand isn't theft because it wasn't 5 million, and that is what you're doing. Both forms suffocate the prisoner. Both are forms of water torture. Both are illegal.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Amnesty International Wants Bush Prosecuted for Admitted Waterboarding

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Is this your way of ingnoring the rebuttal. I linked an overview for that says exactly what I'm saying. That is ahrdly putting my fingers in my ears. You simply have this wrong. Waterboarding is the water torture. All the differening methods do exactly the same thing.
    You didn't post a rebuttal. I gave you specific details about a torture method employed by Japanese, for which they were tried and convicted, that obviously contrasts with the method we are debating. You then said there was no contrast.

    La-la-la-la....

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    Re: Amnesty International Wants Bush Prosecuted for Admitted Waterboarding

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    The Geneva Convention protects people in uniform and innocent civilians. It does not protect terrorists. If you believe the people held at Gitmo are innocent, not terrorists, then argue that point.

    As to having tortured innocent people, of course, we have. We've killed 'em, too. Women and children and all the rest. Such are the spoils of war. I'll say it again, because one can't say it too much:

    There is no country in the history of the world that has done more in wartime to protect the innocents. We're not perfect. But we're as close to that as any nation has ever gotten.
    Law applies to everyone. And to protect the innocent, you have to protect the guilty. As we've done, you can believe someone is guilty only to learn later that you've harmed an innocent person. Being cavalier about doing such harm to an innocent is exactly how others, including our present enemy, have justified their horrors. No matter how good we've been, we're less when we make excuses for doing evil.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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