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Thread: Amnesty International Wants Bush Prosecuted for Admitted Waterboarding

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    Re: Amnesty International Wants Bush Prosecuted for Admitted Waterboarding

    Quote Originally Posted by winston53660 View Post
    From Amensty International:

    The USA ratified the UN Convention against Torture and Other Cruel, Inhuman or Degrading Treatment or Punishment (UNCAT) in 1994. Under UNCAT, in every case where there is evidence against a person of their having committed or attempted to commit torture, or of having committed acts which constitute complicity or participation in torture, the case must be submitted to its competent authorities for the purpose of prosecution.
    Failing to proceed with a prosecution on the basis that the accused held public office of any rank, or citing justifications based in “exceptional circumstances”, whether states of war or other public emergencies, is not permitted by UNCAT.
    US must begin criminal investigation of torture following Bush admission
    LOL, bring it on!

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    Re: Amnesty International Wants Bush Prosecuted for Admitted Waterboarding

    Quote Originally Posted by winston53660 View Post
    From Amensty International:

    The USA ratified the UN Convention against Torture and Other Cruel, Inhuman or Degrading Treatment or Punishment (UNCAT) in 1994. Under UNCAT, in every case where there is evidence against a person of their having committed or attempted to commit torture, or of having committed acts which constitute complicity or participation in torture, the case must be submitted to its competent authorities for the purpose of prosecution.
    Failing to proceed with a prosecution on the basis that the accused held public office of any rank, or citing justifications based in “exceptional circumstances”, whether states of war or other public emergencies, is not permitted by UNCAT.
    US must begin criminal investigation of torture following Bush admission
    and just what, if anything, does that have to do with my comment?

    and even more importantly, why do all of "you people" that have such a hardon for getting Bush, ignore the fact that many of "your guys" are just as guilty/complicit as Bush?
    Last edited by OscarB63; 11-15-10 at 12:12 PM.
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    Re: Amnesty International Wants Bush Prosecuted for Admitted Waterboarding

    Quote Originally Posted by winston53660 View Post
    From Amensty International:

    The USA ratified the UN Convention against Torture and Other Cruel, Inhuman or Degrading Treatment or Punishment (UNCAT) in 1994. Under UNCAT, in every case where there is evidence against a person of their having committed or attempted to commit torture, or of having committed acts which constitute complicity or participation in torture, the case must be submitted to its competent authorities for the purpose of prosecution.
    Failing to proceed with a prosecution on the basis that the accused held public office of any rank, or citing justifications based in “exceptional circumstances”, whether states of war or other public emergencies, is not permitted by UNCAT.
    US must begin criminal investigation of torture following Bush admission
    Good find. We shouldn't have signed it without a clearer definition of what constitutes torture. Severe pain and suffering....does waterboarding fall under that category? Subjective definitions always suck. UNCAT's definition is:

    Article 1 of the Convention defines torture as:

    Any act by which severe pain or suffering, whether physical or mental, is intentionally inflicted on a person for such purposes as obtaining from him or a third person, information or a confession, punishing him for an act he or a third person has committed or is suspected of having committed, or intimidating or coercing him or a third person, or for any reason based on discrimination of any kind, when such pain or suffering is inflicted by or at the instigation of or with the consent or acquiescence of a public official or other person acting in an official capacity. It does not include pain or suffering arising only from, inherent in or incidental to lawful sanctions.

    – Convention Against Torture, Article 1.1
    Last edited by MaggieD; 11-15-10 at 12:12 PM.
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    Re: Amnesty International Wants Bush Prosecuted for Admitted Waterboarding

    Quote Originally Posted by OscarB63 View Post
    and just what, if anything, does that have to do with my comment?

    Just letting you know Amnesty Internationals reasoning.

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    Re: Amnesty International Wants Bush Prosecuted for Admitted Waterboarding

    Quote Originally Posted by winston53660 View Post
    Just letting you know Amnesty Internationals reasoning.
    which had absolutely nothing to do with either the post I replied to or my reply. FWIW, since we are trading irrelevent info, it is now 11:13 a.m. central time.
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    Re: Amnesty International Wants Bush Prosecuted for Admitted Waterboarding

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    Good find. We shouldn't have signed it without a clearer definition of what constitutes torture. Severe pain and suffering....does waterboarding fall under that category? Subjective definitions always suck. UNCAT's definition is:
    funny thing. according to UNCAT's definition, you can waterboard someone all day long "just for the hell of it" and it doesn't meet their definition of "torture".

    as long as you are not trying to get info or a confession, punish them for an act they commited, or intimidate them based on discrimination you are good to go.

    put every detainee's name in a hat, draw one out at random and waterboard away.
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    Re: Amnesty International Wants Bush Prosecuted for Admitted Waterboarding

    Quote Originally Posted by OscarB63 View Post
    funny thing. according to UNCAT's definition, you can waterboard someone all day long "just for the hell of it" and it doesn't meet their definition of "torture".

    as long as you are not trying to get info or a confession, punish them for an act they commited, or intimidate them based on discrimination you are good to go.

    put every detainee's name in a hat, draw one out at random and waterboard away.
    Yes, we should definitely keep looking for every possible loophole in torture bans.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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    Re: Amnesty International Wants Bush Prosecuted for Admitted Waterboarding

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    Yes, we should definitely keep looking for every possible loophole in torture bans.
    just saying......

    not my fault UNCAT wrote a ****ty definition.
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    Re: Amnesty International Wants Bush Prosecuted for Admitted Waterboarding

    Quote Originally Posted by SheWolf View Post
    I got my information for my sources, which I cited. People were punished and discipled by the military for waterboarding during the Vietnam war.. It was made illegal through the military court system. I am sure generals had the power and authority to sway the courts or make recommendations.
    From what I've been able to find thus far, the American soldier in Viet Nam who was investigated for torture for supervising a waterboarding was subsequently cleared. I haven't been able to find out whether he was even charged.

    The story of Japanese hanged for waterboarding, as far as I can tell, goes back to a statement made by John McCain. I haven't found actual evidence of it being true. There was a Japanese soldier sentenced to 15 years hard labor, with waterboarding listed as an offense, but he also engaged in the following over an extended period of time: "..beating using hands, fists, club; kicking; … burning using cigarettes..."

    I know your source says that generals made the practice illegal, but since they don't have the authority to make law, I think your source is incorrect.

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    Re: Amnesty International Wants Bush Prosecuted for Admitted Waterboarding

    Quote Originally Posted by FederalRepublic View Post
    From what I've been able to find thus far, the American soldier in Viet Nam who was investigated for torture for supervising a waterboarding was subsequently cleared. I haven't been able to find out whether he was even charged.

    The story of Japanese hanged for waterboarding, as far as I can tell, goes back to a statement made by John McCain. I haven't found actual evidence of it being true. There was a Japanese soldier sentenced to 15 years hard labor, with waterboarding listed as an offense, but he also engaged in the following over an extended period of time: "..beating using hands, fists, club; kicking; … burning using cigarettes..."

    I know your source says that generals made the practice illegal, but since they don't have the authority to make law, I think your source is incorrect.
    In the war crimes tribunals that followed Japan's defeat in World War II, the issue of waterboarding was sometimes raised. In 1947, the U.S. charged a Japanese officer, Yukio Asano, with war crimes for waterboarding a U.S. civilian. Asano was sentenced to 15 years of hard labor.

    "All of these trials elicited compelling descriptions of water torture from its victims, and resulted in severe punishment for its perpetrators," writes Evan Wallach in the Columbia Journal of Transnational Law.


    On Jan. 21, 1968, The Washington Post ran a front-page photo of a U.S. soldier supervising the waterboarding of a captured North Vietnamese soldier. The caption said the technique induced "a flooding sense of suffocation and drowning, meant to make him talk." The picture led to an Army investigation and, two months later, the court martial of the soldier.

    Waterboarding: A Tortured History : NPR

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