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Thread: Amnesty International Wants Bush Prosecuted for Admitted Waterboarding

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    Re: Amnesty International Wants Bush Prosecuted for Admitted Waterboarding

    Quote Originally Posted by SheWolf View Post
    source?

    That is not what I am finding in the review.. and I am sure you know congress doesn't have the authority to reverse a Supreme Court Ruling.

    If you read what I was not saying they made waterboarding illegal, I wasn't referring to the court saying the prisoners are protected under the Geneva Convention. Obviously, I even highlighted that part
    Read your own link, you posted it but didn;t know what was in it. I am still waiting for you to explain why Obama had to issue an executive order that made Waterboarding illegal if it was alreayd declared illegal by the courts. By the time that the Courts did rule the Waterboarding had already taken place and then you ignore that the Congress made the military commissions legal by law. Courts interpret the law and the Congress makes the laws. An Activist Court seems to be what liberals always want.

    The issue here is waterboarding and since it wasn't defined Bush broke no laws.

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    Angry Re: Amnesty International Wants Bush Prosecuted for Admitted Waterboarding

    Quote Originally Posted by megaprogman View Post
    Amnesty International Calls to Prosecute Bush for Admitted Waterboarding



    I support this and basically feel that these activities constitute a war crime.
    I wish Mainstream Media Amnesty International, the United Nations, Muslims and Liberals would raise all kinds of hell about the way the enemy tortures and beheads their own people and Americans. I don't see anybody protesting against it.
    What a bunch of boloney and hypocriscy.
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    Re: Amnesty International Wants Bush Prosecuted for Admitted Waterboarding

    Quote Originally Posted by SheWolf View Post
    I am familiar with SERE school.. I know a few vets who are very familiar with it.. Of course they have admitted that waterboarding wasn't done the same in SERE school as it was done in Gito. They are also not saying whether or not waterboarding is still being used in SERE school at all now.

    Was waterboarding really legal under 2340? That is controversial and debatable too if you ask around.. It was always controversial and had bad history attached to it. Go ahead and keep arguing that it was legal. I don't really care. The fact is Bush had to make an executive order that made torture illegal, while it was already illegal and left out waterboarding. Critics jumped on it from the beginning.
    Bolded sentence is the whole point. And the point of this thread was about Bush being guilty of war crimes. It is not a black-and-white issue. My opinion is that waterboarding was legal at the time Bush authorized it. He will not be prosecuted for war crimes. Waterboarding is illegal now due to Obama's Executive Order. If you do not believe that waterboarding was legal at the time Bush authorized it, that's your opinion. And you're entitled to it.
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    Re: Amnesty International Wants Bush Prosecuted for Admitted Waterboarding

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    Bolded sentence is the whole point. And the point of this thread was about Bush being guilty of war crimes. It is not a black-and-white issue. My opinion is that waterboarding was legal at the time Bush authorized it. He will not be prosecuted for war crimes. Waterboarding is illegal now due to Obama's Executive Order. If you do not believe that waterboarding was legal at the time Bush authorized it, that's your opinion. And you're entitled to it.
    I just hate to see al these whimpy people crying about Bush's (according to them) violating the law and looking the other way, that's all... and as you said I am entitled to my opinion.
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    Re: Amnesty International Wants Bush Prosecuted for Admitted Waterboarding

    Quote Originally Posted by SheWolf View Post
    yea.. four generals have no authority in the military or anything
    They have lots of authority to do lots of things, but making laws isn't one of them.

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    Re: Amnesty International Wants Bush Prosecuted for Admitted Waterboarding

    Quote Originally Posted by SheWolf View Post
    It depends on their crimes and what they are guilty of.. but they should get a trial before they are executed. I wouldn't have a problem with executing them either
    Where's the crime scene? How are we supposed to gather evidence if the fighting is still active? If they were shooting at us, who were shooting back at them, what crime did they commit? You really think it's better (and puts us in a better light around the world) to try and execute enemy combatants while the fight is still going on? Better to execute them than to hold them without trial until the fighting is over? Really?

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    Re: Amnesty International Wants Bush Prosecuted for Admitted Waterboarding

    Quote Originally Posted by SheWolf View Post
    I am sorry.. I don't buy this argument and you're getting from a website that is biased. Do you have another source?

    My problem with this is we have considered it war crimes when other countries have tortured combatants who were not in the military, and did not belong to sovereign countries..

    History is full of so many examples.. look at the history of Yugoslavia, Bosnia-Herzegovina.. apartheid South Africa tortured Nelson Mendela and many others under those facts, the USSR also tortured and killed people under those facts, Saddam Hussein and the Kurdish people..

    I had this conversation with somebody else, and I think this justification is disgusting.. because it can potentially justify torturing any people in the world fighting an oppressive government.

    I also hate the stateless component to this argument.. You know what oppressive governments like USSR, Nazi Germany, and first settlers in America who committed genocide against natives did? They refused to recognize the people they tortured's statehood. The USSR said that the people under them weren't nationals of Poland, Czechoslovakia, etc. anymore.. those countries were gone. If you wanted your sovereign independence back and you did so much as to protest publicly, you were send off to a gulag or mowed down with bullets and tanks.

    The USSR was abusive and did violate human rights.. South Africa, Saddam Hussein, etc. etc. We have always felt that way as a nation and as a international community.
    All well and good, but how is this relevant since waterboarding is not torture?

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    Re: Amnesty International Wants Bush Prosecuted for Admitted Waterboarding

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    The Geneva Convention expressly addresses that all bets are off if the enemy is shielding, as an example, it's munitions storage facility in the midst of a civilian population. Or its troops in close proximity to a hospital. We do a better job that any nation on earth in our attempts to protect civilian populations. All the while, our enemies are killing civilians like freakin' flies.
    I think he is using amnesty international's interpretation of "illegal" to bash obama and check for consistency...

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    Re: Amnesty International Wants Bush Prosecuted for Admitted Waterboarding

    Quote Originally Posted by FederalRepublic View Post
    All well and good, but how is this relevant since waterboarding is not torture?
    Well... yes it is.

    But is/was it justified at the time, under the circumstances?? That's the issue.

    Saying simulated drowning is not torture is just retarded.

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    Re: Amnesty International Wants Bush Prosecuted for Admitted Waterboarding

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    Bolded sentence is the whole point. And the point of this thread was about Bush being guilty of war crimes. It is not a black-and-white issue. My opinion is that waterboarding was legal at the time Bush authorized it. He will not be prosecuted for war crimes. Waterboarding is illegal now due to Obama's Executive Order. If you do not believe that waterboarding was legal at the time Bush authorized it, that's your opinion. And you're entitled to it.
    I know these are the facts.. but I wasn't interested in discussing them from the beginning. I find it more interesting that people on this thread are arguing for torture. Never mind what you think about waterboarding.. they think torture is justifiable

    The only thing wrong with saying waterboarding was legal during the Bush Admin is that there was nothing expressively stating it was legal. Nothing expressively said it was illegal either, but there was a history of condemnation and there were always people on torture councils, lawyers, and military generals, who considered it torture. You really can't argue it either way, which is why I think these people want Bush tried... put something in concrete. But as I said before, it won't happen.. politicians can get away with murder

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