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Thread: Amnesty International Wants Bush Prosecuted for Admitted Waterboarding

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    Re: Amnesty International Wants Bush Prosecuted for Admitted Waterboarding

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    Why did every other President before Obama not issue an executive order to ban waterboarding? Because waterboarding, while now expressly illegal, was not illegal before that executive order.
    Why did Bush have to make a executive order banning torture, if torture was always illegal? Was torture legal before? His executive order cited 18 USC 2340 and the Constitution's ban on cruel and unusual punishment, but didn't list waterboarding. Critics said that waterboarding falls under 18 USC 2340... so he was trying make a loophole around it

    America always had a history of condemning waterboarding..

    Water boarding was designated as illegal by U.S. generals in the Vietnam War. On January 21, 1968, The Washington Post published a controversial photograph of an American soldier supervising the waterboarding of a North Vietnamese POW near Da Nang. The article described the practice as "fairly common." The photograph led to the soldier being court-martialled by a U.S. military court within one month of its publication, and he was thrown out of the army. Another waterboarding photograph of the same scene is also exhibited in the War Remnants Museum at Ho Chi Minh City.

    In 1947, the United States prosecuted a Japanese military officer, Yukio Asano, for carrying out a form of waterboarding on a U.S. civilian during World War II. Yukio Asano received a sentence of 15 years of hard labor. The charges of Violation of the Laws and Customs of War against Asano also included "beating using hands, fists, club; kicking; burning using cigarettes; strapping on a stretcher head downward."

    In its 2005 Country Reports on Human Rights Practices, the U.S. Department of State formally recognized "submersion of the head in water" as torture in its examination of Tunisia's poor human rights record, and critics of waterboarding draw parallels between the two techniques, citing the similar usage of water on the subject.
    Waterboarding IS*TORTURE - Page 1

    Bush's legal team was smart and they knew what they were doing.. They're just playing politics with history and trying to say waterboarding is not that cruel or it works, so the ends justify the means. I am sure they knew it was controversial from the beginning.. Lots of people and countries have always considered it torture, so waterboarding being bad wasn't a foreign concept when the Bush Admin engaged in it.

    People think they are justified on both sides.. I understand that.. but to act like waterboarding was a non issue before the Bush Admin is not true. It was considered illegal by the military and it was considered torture in previous situations and in many countries.

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    Re: Amnesty International Wants Bush Prosecuted for Admitted Waterboarding

    Quote Originally Posted by Eighty Deuce View Post
    I am shocked that liberals would want to see GB prosecuted ! Shocked I tell you !!!

    Has MENSA called for the prosecution of Obama yet for being the dumbest President ever ? Whassup wit dat !
    If IQ is your litmus test then your in for some bad news.

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    Re: Amnesty International Wants Bush Prosecuted for Admitted Waterboarding

    Quote Originally Posted by Eighty Deuce View Post
    Is he trying to win the trophy for the dumbest libtard in Congress ? Ought to be able to shoot some of these complete idiots and put us out of their misery.

    Patience.
    Does your mommy know that you are texting with grown ups. I mean really, part of debate is having a point.

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    Re: Amnesty International Wants Bush Prosecuted for Admitted Waterboarding

    Quote Originally Posted by SheWolf View Post
    Why did Bush have to make a executive order banning torture, if torture was always illegal? Was torture legal before? His executive order cited 18 USC 2340 and the Constitution's ban on cruel and unusual punishment, but didn't list waterboarding. Critics said that waterboarding falls under 18 USC 2340... so he was trying make a loophole around it.
    We are arguing in circles. You ask, "Why did Bush...." I ask, "Why, then, did Obama...."

    Waterboarding is controversial. Until President Obama made an Executive Order against it, it was legal. The fact that Generals in Viet Nam chose to make waterboarding outside the Rules of Engagement by specifically addressing it, does not mean that it was, in fact, illegal according to U.S. law. Now it is. Then it wasn't.

    I'd also remind you that our own military subjected (and probably still subjects) our SERE training enrollees in a sampling along with other so-called tortures...which are NOT tortures. . . . Unless, of course, you believe our military tortures our own soldiers.
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    Re: Amnesty International Wants Bush Prosecuted for Admitted Waterboarding

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    What would you say if we captured a half-dozen alleged insurgents accused of spying (including an American citizen), convened a military tribunal that immediately sentenced them to death, and shot them all, just one month after being captured?
    Why are you even asking me this?

    I wouldn't have a problem with them being executed for their crimes as long as their rights were not abused during the trial or the interrogation.

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    Re: Amnesty International Wants Bush Prosecuted for Admitted Waterboarding

    Quote Originally Posted by SheWolf

    [QUOTE
    Sorry.. but I don't really see what your responses have to do with my question.. Saddam tortured and killed many Kurds.
    The bigger picture is that he committed genocide against the Kurds. He gassed them from above and they died very shortly thereafter. It was far more than just 'torture'. This is the homicidal tyrant the Coalition forces removed, and with justifiable reason.

    I am not suggesting we create a state for them.. I am suggesting that torturing somebody just because they:

    1. Don't have a state, and
    2. Are not in a military
    I can't see where anyone is torturing people, and especially the Kurds, for these reasons.

    Is a bad reason to torture somebody. Saddam did it to the Kurdish people and yet we look at him unfavourably for it.
    Actually we look 'unfavorably' at him for a variety of excellent reasons..

    Why should those two rules make it permissible to torture somebody?
    It doesn't seem that you are quite getting the point.

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    Re: Amnesty International Wants Bush Prosecuted for Admitted Waterboarding

    Quote Originally Posted by Councilman View Post
    I want Amnesty International and the U.N banned from the U.S. and Obama impeached for violation of his oath of office.

    A new LAW demanding all who run for President must prove it and in court if need be, and if found to have run illegally you get a mandatory 10 years in Federal prison no exceptions and Presidents can never declare a Presidential pardon for any crime committed by anyone in the administration of the President charged with any crime, or misdemeanor, including removed Presidents.

    But none of that's not going to happen either, because it's too close to justice.
    What violation of the oath of office did President Obama do?

    What claim do you have that President Obama ran Illegally?

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    Re: Amnesty International Wants Bush Prosecuted for Admitted Waterboarding

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    We are arguing in circles. You ask, "Why did Bush...." I ask, "Why, then, did Obama...."

    Waterboarding is controversial. Until President Obama made an Executive Order against it, it was legal. The fact that Generals in Viet Nam chose to make waterboarding outside the Rules of Engagement by specifically addressing it, does not mean that it was, in fact, illegal according to U.S. law. Now it is. Then it wasn't.

    I'd also remind you that our own military subjected (and probably still subjects) our SERE training enrollees in a sampling along with other so-called tortures...which are NOT tortures. . . . Unless, of course, you believe our military tortures our own soldiers.
    I am familiar with SERE school.. I know a few vets who are very familiar with it.. Of course they have admitted that waterboarding wasn't done the same in SERE school as it was done in Gito. They are also not saying whether or not waterboarding is still being used in SERE school at all now.

    Was waterboarding really legal under 2340? That is controversial and debatable too if you ask around.. It was always controversial and had bad history attached to it. Go ahead and keep arguing that it was legal. I don't really care. The fact is Bush had to make an executive order that made torture illegal, while it was already illegal and left out waterboarding. Critics jumped on it from the beginning.

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    Re: Amnesty International Wants Bush Prosecuted for Admitted Waterboarding

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    Protocol I has never been ratified by the Congress of the United States.

    Reagan Rejected Terrorist Geneva Conventions | Sweetness & Light
    Sorry.. but I don't understand what this has to do with my question. I even read more about this online...

    Maybe I confused you with my post, but I see the original link you posted only concerned Al Qaeda... In this case, we aren't just talking about Al Qaeda but anybody being tortured who is not in military and is stateless. I am not talking about genocide. I am just talking about torture like the torture of ANC members like Nelson Mendela in South Africa.

    Where in the Geneva Conventions does it say its ok to torture anybody?

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    Re: Amnesty International Wants Bush Prosecuted for Admitted Waterboarding

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post


    I can't see where anyone is torturing people, and especially the Kurds, for these reasons.

    .
    Nobody is being tortured for those reasons.... Torturing them is being justified as legal and acceptable via those reasons..

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