Page 52 of 84 FirstFirst ... 242505152535462 ... LastLast
Results 511 to 520 of 834

Thread: Amnesty International Wants Bush Prosecuted for Admitted Waterboarding

  1. #511
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Canada, Costa Rica
    Last Seen
    05-16-16 @ 09:45 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    31,645

    Re: Amnesty International Wants Bush Prosecuted for Admitted Waterboarding

    SheWolf
    Then it was OK for Saddam to torture Kurds.. because they weren't soldiers either..
    Actually the Kurds were gassed by Saddam Hussein and eventually liberated by the American Forces, as authorized by George Bush, and the politicians who voted for the invasion of Iraq.

    They are stateless people.
    What are you suggesting here? That we create a state for them?

  2. #512
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Canada, Costa Rica
    Last Seen
    05-16-16 @ 09:45 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    31,645

    Re: Amnesty International Wants Bush Prosecuted for Admitted Waterboarding

    SheWolf
    I don't think anything is going to happen to Bush.. nothing happened to Clinton for lying under oath and that is a crime.
    Bill Clinton was impeached, only the second time in US history this has happened. But of course he is still popular in Liberal circles.
    Politicians aren't held accountable for anything.. not even by the voters.
    Actually, iif you had followed the recent mid term elections, they were held accountable.
    American voters can be horrendously stupid people.
    Anyone voting for Barrack Obama certainly gives this point some credibility.

    But I don't see how people who supported the war are an accessory to torture..
    They aren't. The argument makes no sense whatsoever. It's just wishful thinking by the hopeless leftists.

    The problem I am seeing with a lot of arguments for torture is they are all attacking the terrorists.. they are scum, they don't deserve rights; think what they want to do to you.. they are evil, they deserve torture.
    Yep.

    I don't disagree with that. They deserve torture, but I am also coming from the POV that we are held by our constitutional principles and, as a people, we don't really know the abuses at Gitmo.. There are allegations that people are and were being tortured there and they were denied trials. We don't know who was being tortured. We don't know everything.
    But you will still get those who don't believe anything the American government says. Skepticism, to a certain point, is always healthy but many of those making the outlandish charges about torture, etc. are simply deranged liars.

    I remember those disgusting humiliating photos of the prisoner.. in homosexual poses and being attacked by dogs. That is sick and that was unacceptable.
    Yes, and the people involved were charged and punished. It's unlikely that any other soldiers would do the same thing again, considering the consequences.
    We don't even know who was being held there and why.. their names and accusations..
    Why would you want to know that? Is it important? Would it make a difference?
    I don't understand why it is controversial for us all to ask wtf is really going on.. I remember that memo that Limbaugh and the right got so upset over, saying conservatives were being labeled terrorists. We have people on the terrorist watch list and they don't even know why or how they are on it. They can't get off it either.
    It's often dirty politics all right. AG Holder chasing after NJ governor Christie is another example of that.
    This is all ridiculous considering the conservatives who don't trust government, trust government to play politics with wiretapping us and torturing suspected terrorists.
    I have less confidence in the government if they don't torture known terrorists.

    None of it sounds like a good system to keep pursuing IMO. Something needs to change.. there needs to be openness. We can't hold people without trials and be waterboarding them and using other suspected torture techniques on them. We even gave the Nazis trails...
    I think waterboarding these guys is an excellent idea. If you really need to know their names it's probably Mohammed something.

  3. #513
    Educating the Ignorant
    zimmer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Last Seen
    Today @ 05:39 PM
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    14,445
    Blog Entries
    12

    Re: Amnesty International Wants Bush Prosecuted for Admitted Waterboarding

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Incognito View Post
    You don't define the parameters of universal jurisdiction, the community of nations does. So if the community of nations defined trolling as a crime ius cogens, then yes, universal jurisdiction would apply.
    With a world full of despots, isn't it amazing how selective their targets are? For example, where were they when Saddam was having his jollies? But Bush is a war criminal for non-torture (3 water boarding events)!?

    Quote Originally Posted by Resist the gov. View Post
    ... what about all the atrocities that have been commited at Gitmo and the other prison camps ? Im sure water boarding wasnt the only thing going on in those facilities and i would say its safe to assume that the president had knowledge of what was going on.
    1. WB was used three times in the US. It's a selective enhanced interrogation technique reserved for the select few that need be broken and to a point decided by expert interrogators.

    2. What atrocities? Did anyone die or was anyone maimed, scarred for life? No. What happened at Gitmo was enhanced hazing... demeaning to the poor terrorista's yes (1, 2, 3... awwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww)... atrocities... ROTFLOL... get real.

    3. Atrocities were what Saddam committed. Rape rooms, throwing people from buildings, REAL torture.
    Last edited by zimmer; 11-14-10 at 02:43 AM.
    The Clintons are what happens...
    when you have NO MORAL COMPASS.

  4. #514
    Educating the Ignorant
    zimmer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Last Seen
    Today @ 05:39 PM
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    14,445
    Blog Entries
    12

    Re: Amnesty International Wants Bush Prosecuted for Admitted Waterboarding

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    Guy Incognito

    Actually a majority in the government at the time would also have to be charged because if Bush lied, they all lied. That would include former President Clinton also, as well as his VP.
    Clinton then should be charged for his practice of "rendition". A Clinton original; Sending folks to other countries that are known to use real torture.



    .
    Last edited by zimmer; 11-14-10 at 02:51 AM.
    The Clintons are what happens...
    when you have NO MORAL COMPASS.

  5. #515
    Educating the Ignorant
    zimmer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Last Seen
    Today @ 05:39 PM
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    14,445
    Blog Entries
    12

    Re: Amnesty International Wants Bush Prosecuted for Admitted Waterboarding

    [QUOTE]
    Quote Originally Posted by SheWolf View Post

    The problem I am seeing with a lot of arguments for torture is they are all attacking the terrorists.. they are scum, they don't deserve rights; think what they want to do to you.. they are evil, they deserve torture.
    Waterboarding isn't torture, so your whole premise is moot.

    If torture is what you're after... then Amnesia International should be on Clinton's doorstep for the practice of rendition. Clinton was responsible for sending people to countries that use torture. Which should lead Amnesia International where... to the doorsteps of these countries as well.

    we don't really know the abuses at Gitmo.. There are allegations that people are and were being tortured there and they were denied trials. We don't know who was being tortured. We don't know everything.
    Nobody died, nobody was maimed... they hazed them... aww jeeeez. Not nice, beneath us yes, but torture? No.

    I remember those disgusting humiliating photos of the prisoner.. in homosexual poses and being attacked by dogs. That is sick and that was unacceptable.
    They weren't attacked by dogs, they were intimidated by dogs. It's not sick, but it's not our shining moment either.

    This is all ridiculous considering the conservatives who don't trust government, trust government to play politics with wiretapping us and torturing suspected terrorists.
    Again, we didn't torture suspected terrorists. Waterboarding isn't torture.

    None of it sounds like a good system to keep pursuing IMO. Something needs to change.. there needs to be openness. We can't hold people without trials and be waterboarding them and using other suspected torture techniques on them. We even gave the Nazis trails...
    Yeah we did... AFTER we won the war.

    1. They were nation states we were fighting.
    2. They wore uniforms.
    3. They surrendered.

    So, until we have won the war... no trials. They can rot in Gitmo.

    Quote Originally Posted by SheWolf View Post
    Do you realize all the people who stood up for their rights in the USSR weren't in uniform and didn't represent a country and were run over by Soviet tanks, shot to death, spied on, sent to gulag? Do you realize that that is the case for people standing up to oppressive governments all over the world, being marginalized and tortured, raped, etc? Does Nelson Mandela ring a bell?

    Utterly disgusting.
    Well, if that is the case, where has Amnesia International calling for all the Commi leaders to be put on trial for crimes against humanity? It's not too late y'know. Gorby should be first in line, and then we have the Chinese at Tiananmen Square alone. Where are the calls for L'il Kim in NK?

    .
    Last edited by zimmer; 11-14-10 at 03:17 AM.
    The Clintons are what happens...
    when you have NO MORAL COMPASS.

  6. #516
    Sage
    j-mac's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    South Carolina
    Last Seen
    Today @ 07:02 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    30,274

    Re: Amnesty International Wants Bush Prosecuted for Admitted Waterboarding

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Incognito View Post
    A fundamental fact about the founding of this nation, you mean.
    No, you have many facts wrong, not just that one.

    j-mac
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

    Alexis de Tocqueville

  7. #517
    Sage
    Guy Incognito's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Last Seen
    12-02-17 @ 07:43 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    11,216

    Re: Amnesty International Wants Bush Prosecuted for Admitted Waterboarding

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    No, you have many facts wrong, not just that one.

    j-mac
    Two posts now without an argument. That's enough to consider you forfeiting the debate, but since I'm a nice guy I'll gice you one more crack at it.

    Got any way to demostrate that the states didn't cede sovereignty to the federal government? Of course you don't, because you are factually incorrect. The states did cede a portion of their sovereignty to the federal government. That's where the federal government gets its power from in the first place! It's a very bizarre misunderstanding of history you seem to have here, j-mac.

  8. #518
    Girthless
    RightinNYC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    New York, NY
    Last Seen
    01-23-11 @ 11:56 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Slightly Conservative
    Posts
    25,894

    Re: Amnesty International Wants Bush Prosecuted for Admitted Waterboarding

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Incognito View Post
    Two posts now without an argument. That's enough to consider you forfeiting the debate, but since I'm a nice guy I'll gice you one more crack at it.

    Got any way to demostrate that the states didn't cede sovereignty to the federal government? Of course you don't, because you are factually incorrect. The states did cede a portion of their sovereignty to the federal government. That's where the federal government gets its power from in the first place! It's a very bizarre misunderstanding of history you seem to have here, j-mac.
    If you're still around, I'd be interested in your response to this:

    http://www.debatepolitics.com/breaki...post1059099803
    People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

  9. #519
    Sage
    Conservative's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Houston, TX
    Last Seen
    Today @ 01:25 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    67,264

    Re: Amnesty International Wants Bush Prosecuted for Admitted Waterboarding

    Quote Originally Posted by SheWolf View Post
    It didn't reverse Hamdan v Rumsfeld and it doesn't sound like you know what that case was exactly about either..
    Hamdan was about the authority of Military Commissions and sought to ban them. The Courts ruled that Congress needed to authorize those commissions which they did in the fall of 2006. It had NOTHING to do with Waterboarding. Strike 2. Waterboarding Hamdan was not an issue because he wasn't Waterboarded.

    Military Commissions Authorized
    Waterboarding declared illegal in 2009 by an Executive Order

  10. #520
    Guru

    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Last Seen
    09-24-17 @ 04:35 PM
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    2,942

    Re: Amnesty International Wants Bush Prosecuted for Admitted Waterboarding

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Incognito View Post
    Hey, you're looking it up. I respect that Here's the short cite: 25 F. 408. I'll look around for more.

    There's nothing special about ex-presidents. Sitting heads of state get a pass, for diplomatic reasons, and reasons of national security. But ex presidents are just private citizens, and must be treated as such. A private citizen who tortures is subject to universal jurisdiction, just like a private citizen who commits genocide.
    A private citizen would not be acting in an official capacity and, thus, not capable of torture...not that waterboarding is torture in the first place.

Page 52 of 84 FirstFirst ... 242505152535462 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •