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Thread: Amnesty International Wants Bush Prosecuted for Admitted Waterboarding

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    Re: Amnesty International Wants Bush Prosecuted for Admitted Waterboarding

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Seems I cannot get an answer to the question I and others have raised,if waterboarding is torture, why did Barack Obama have to sign an executive order making waterboarding illegal? Seems to me that if it was illegal then there was no need for that executive order.
    You're also jumping in the conversation..

    I have been having conversations with others here who support "torture." They even use the words torture.. so they aren't opposed to torturing terrorists. Now if you think torture is wrong and waterboarding is acceptable, then you can argue with them yourself.

    As for your question.. I don't know why Obama had to do that considering people in Bush's former Admin have admitted waterboarding was illegal

    US official admits waterboarding presently illegal | World news | guardian.co.uk


    and waterboarding was designated as illegal by U.S. generals in Vietnam

    History of an Interrogation Technique: Water Boarding - ABC News

    Waterboarding is Illegal - Washington University Law Review

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    Re: Amnesty International Wants Bush Prosecuted for Admitted Waterboarding

    Quote Originally Posted by SheWolf View Post
    You're also jumping in the conversation..

    I have been having conversations with others here who support "torture." They even use the words torture.. so they aren't opposed to torturing terrorists. Now if you think torture is wrong and waterboarding is acceptable, then you can argue with them yourself.

    As for your question.. I don't know why Obama had to do that considering people in Bush's former Admin have admitted waterboarding was illegal

    US official admits waterboarding presently illegal | World news | guardian.co.uk


    and waterboarding was designated as illegal by U.S. generals in Vietnam

    History of an Interrogation Technique: Water Boarding - ABC News

    Waterboarding is Illegal - Washington University Law Review
    Didn't know this was a private forum. As for the comments of officials of the Bush Administration I am sure that you believed everything the Bush Administration officials told you thus the justification for going to war.

    There are a lot of people who believed that Waterboarding was illegal just like there were a lot of people who didn't including members of the Justice Dept and there wasn't a law against it. Opinions regardless of where they came from don't make it the truth. The fact is Obama wouldn't have had to issue an executive order to make waterboarding illegal if it was that cut and dry as you claim or as other stated.

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    Re: Amnesty International Wants Bush Prosecuted for Admitted Waterboarding

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Didn't know this was a private forum. As for the comments of officials of the Bush Administration I am sure that you believed everything the Bush Administration officials told you thus the justification for going to war.

    There are a lot of people who believed that Waterboarding was illegal just like there were a lot of people who didn't including members of the Justice Dept and there wasn't a law against it. Opinions regardless of where they came from don't make it the truth. The fact is Obama wouldn't have had to issue an executive order to make waterboarding illegal if it was that cut and dry as you claim or as other stated.
    Of course people have discerning opinions and views.. They don't like the laws, so they try to get out of them and weasel around them. However, the facts are pretty cut and dry..

    Water boarding was designated as illegal by U.S. generals in the Vietnam War. On January 21, 1968, The Washington Post published a controversial photograph of an American soldier supervising the waterboarding of a North Vietnamese POW near Da Nang. The article described the practice as "fairly common." The photograph led to the soldier being court-martialled by a U.S. military court within one month of its publication, and he was thrown out of the army. Another waterboarding photograph of the same scene is also exhibited in the War Remnants Museum at Ho Chi Minh City.
    Waterboarding IS*TORTURE - Page 1

    I don't expect any president to know everything.. and I don't expect every single person on their legal teams to not be corrupt either. However, I am sure that somebody on Bush's team knew the history and still gave the go head. That is why they tried to argue that it worked, played semantics, and tried to argue the UN should be disbanned.. The smart people on his team knew it wasn't so simple to waterboard.
    On July 20, 2007, U.S. President George W. Bush signed an executive order banning torture during interrogation of terror suspects. While the guidelines for interrogation do not specifically ban waterboarding, the executive order refers to torture as defined by 18 USC 2340, which includes "the threat of imminent death," as well as the U.S. Constitution's ban on cruel and unusual punishment. Reaction to the order was mixed, with the CIA satisfied that it "clearly defined" the agency's authorities, but Human Rights Watch saying that answer about what specific techniques had been banned lay in the classified companion document and that "the people in charge of interpreting [that] document don't have a particularly good track record of reasonable legal analysis."
    Waterboarding causes the victim to feel and believe they are in threat of imminent death, and it can cause death.

    Bush tried to cover his own ass and did that out of convenience, not political honesty.. Obama played the same game. The difference IMO is Bush thinks he has a moral obligation, and Obama thinks he has obligations through moral and legal principle.

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    Re: Amnesty International Wants Bush Prosecuted for Admitted Waterboarding

    Quote Originally Posted by SheWolf View Post
    Of course people have discerning opinions and views.. They don't like the laws, so they try to get out of them and weasel around them. However, the facts are pretty cut and dry..


    Waterboarding IS*TORTURE - Page 1

    I don't expect any president to know everything.. and I don't expect every single person on their legal teams to not be corrupt either. However, I am sure that somebody on Bush's team knew the history and still gave the go head. That is why they tried to argue that it worked, played semantics, and tried to argue the UN should be disbanned.. The smart people on his team knew it wasn't so simple to waterboard.


    Waterboarding causes the victim to feel and believe they are in threat of imminent death, and it can cause death.

    Bush tried to cover his own ass and did that out of convenience, not political honesty.. Obama played the same game. The difference IMO is Bush thinks he has a moral obligation, and Obama thinks he has obligations through moral and legal principle.
    Look, you can continue to post article after article but none of them matter at all since it remained a very subjective issue until Obama outlawed it by his executive order. Waterboarding does not include the "threat of imminent death" as apparently you don't grasp exactly what waterboarding does. No physical harm comes to anyone waterboarded so what they perceive is irrelevant.

    Now what exactly do you want? With all the problems facing this country today why is there such passion arguing an issue that isn't going anywhere. Waterboarding was open to interpretation prior to the Executive Order. If it were cut and dry there wouldn't have been a need for that order. Apparently that is a hard concept for you to understand.

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    Re: Amnesty International Wants Bush Prosecuted for Admitted Waterboarding

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Look, you can continue to post article after article but none of them matter at all since it remained a very subjective issue until Obama outlawed it by his executive order. Waterboarding does not include the "threat of imminent death" as apparently you don't grasp exactly what waterboarding does. No physical harm comes to anyone waterboarded so what they perceive is irrelevant.

    Now what exactly do you want? With all the problems facing this country today why is there such passion arguing an issue that isn't going anywhere. Waterboarding was open to interpretation prior to the Executive Order. If it were cut and dry there wouldn't have been a need for that order. Apparently that is a hard concept for you to understand.
    With all the problems facing this country... seriously?

    You are sitting here arguing the issue just like I am.. I am not advocating anything be done or a trial of Bush. I am just more entertained by some of the arguments here, so I am here arguing too..

    I can and will post article after article.. while you post none. The fact is, it was only subjective to Bush and a few of his neocon cronies. As I said before, I'll give Bush the benefit of the doubt. He isn't expected to know everything about the law and history. That is what his advisors and legal teams are for, and he was probably more misguided than anything.. so he alone isn't to blame or take all the responsibility.

    But the facts remain.. Before Bush took office, the US had a history of regarding waterboarding as a crime, and it was considered torture and illegal by the US State Dept (2005) and by war generals since Vietnam. So waterboarding being wrong and a crime wasn't a foreign concept or new territory, and when the Supreme Court ruled against Bush and Dick complained and kept arguing for it.

    see
    Hamdan v. Rumsfeld
    Boumediene v. Bush

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    Re: Amnesty International Wants Bush Prosecuted for Admitted Waterboarding

    Quote Originally Posted by SheWolf View Post
    With all the problems facing this country... seriously?

    You are sitting here arguing the issue just like I am.. I am not advocating anything be done or a trial of Bush. I am just more entertained by some of the arguments here, so I am here arguing too..

    I can and will post article after article.. while you post none. The fact is, it was only subjective to Bush and a few of his neocon cronies. As I said before, I'll give Bush the benefit of the doubt. He isn't expected to know everything about the law and history. That is what his advisors and legal teams are for, and he was probably more misguided than anything.. so he alone isn't to blame or take all the responsibility.

    But the facts remain.. Before Bush took office, the US had a history of regarding waterboarding as a crime, and it was considered torture and illegal by the US State Dept (2005) and by war generals since Vietnam. So waterboarding being wrong and a crime wasn't a foreign concept or new territory, and when the Supreme Court ruled against Bush and Dick complained and kept arguing for it.

    see
    Hamdan v. Rumsfeld
    Boumediene v. Bush
    That being the case there would have been no need for an Executive Order so apparently there was a gray area that had to be defined. Waterboarding was part of our own military training and provided no physical damage to anyone.

    I don't see a problem with it and support Bush 100%. The terrorists are religious fanatics who don't believe they are breaking any laws and do not play by international law. they are not representing any country, aren't in uniform, and thus are not subject to the Geneva Convention. You are right, this isn't going anywhere but I do find those that continue to make an issue of it to be very naive as to the enemy we face.

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    Re: Amnesty International Wants Bush Prosecuted for Admitted Waterboarding

    Without a location outside the United States for sending prisoners, the administration must resort to turning the suspects over to foreign governments, bringing them to the U.S. or even killing them.

    In one case last year, U.S. special operations forces killed an Al Qaeda-linked suspect named Saleh Ali Saleh Nabhan in a helicopter attack in southern Somalia rather than trying to capture him, a U.S. official said. Officials had debated trying to take him alive but decided against doing so in part because of uncertainty over where to hold him, the official added.

    U.S. may expand use of its prison in Afghanistan - Los Angeles Times
    No brainer: Just smoke 'em.
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    Re: Amnesty International Wants Bush Prosecuted for Admitted Waterboarding

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    That being the case there would have been no need for an Executive Order so apparently there was a gray area that had to be defined. Waterboarding was part of our own military training and provided no physical damage to anyone.

    I don't see a problem with it and support Bush 100%. The terrorists are religious fanatics who don't believe they are breaking any laws and do not play by international law. they are not representing any country, aren't in uniform, and thus are not subject to the Geneva Convention. You are right, this isn't going anywhere but I do find those that continue to make an issue of it to be very naive as to the enemy we face.
    The supreme court disagrees with you.

    See Hamdan v. Rumsfeld

    And your argument for torturing and waterboarding people is disgusting, despicable, and problematic.

    They aren't in uniforms and don't represent any country.

    Do you realize all the people who stood up for their rights in the USSR weren't in uniform and didn't represent a country and were run over by Soviet tanks, shot to death, spied on, sent to gulag? Do you realize that that is the case for people standing up to oppressive governments all over the world, being marginalized and tortured, raped, etc? Does Nelson Mandela ring a bell?

    Utterly disgusting.

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    Re: Amnesty International Wants Bush Prosecuted for Admitted Waterboarding

    Quote Originally Posted by SheWolf View Post
    The supreme court disagrees with you.

    See Hamdan v. Rumsfeld

    And your argument for torturing and waterboarding people is disgusting, despicable, and problematic.

    They aren't in uniforms and don't represent any country.

    Do you realize all the people who stood up for their rights in the USSR weren't in uniform and didn't represent a country and were run over by Soviet tanks, shot to death, spied on, sent to gulag? Do you realize that that is the case for people standing up to oppressive governments all over the world, being marginalized and tortured, raped, etc? Does Nelson Mandela ring a bell?

    Utterly disgusting.
    Thank you, unfortunately the terrorists don't choose their victims better. If Bush broke the law then why wasn't he prosecuted by the Congress which was under the control of Democrats from 2007-2008? Bush did absolutely nothing wrong and kept Americans safe. You find that disgusting? Says a lot about you. I totally disagree as did the Congress or they would have impeached him for violating the law.

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    Re: Amnesty International Wants Bush Prosecuted for Admitted Waterboarding

    Quote Originally Posted by megaprogman View Post
    Amnesty International Calls to Prosecute Bush for Admitted Waterboarding



    I support this and basically feel that these activities constitute a war crime.
    Shamnesty International can go **** itself. If Al Gore was president and actually had the balls to retaliated against terrorist who attacked us and ordered to have some simulated water drowning(NOT TORTURE) on terrorists for some info. I bet you, shamnesty international and every die hard Bush lied to get us into war for oil, went awol, stole the election, is a dictator bush basher wouldn't be saying a damn thing about water boarding .
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

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