Guy IncognitoThat makes the case rather murky because there is no evidence that he lied.
I disagree. It doesn't go that far. Lying to bolster support for a war is a different issue than torture. I think there is a much slimmer case for the war crime of aggression.
Actually a majority in the government at the time would also have to be charged because if Bush lied, they all lied. That would include former President Clinton also, as well as his VP.But you're right, lots of people are involved, from Bush and Cheney to the individuals in the CIA who actually committed the torture.
Well whether you disagree or not, the facts are quite clear. And civil rights have grown in the world, especially since the fall of communism and the rise of the Internet.I disagree that terrorists remain the main threat to the world. There are lots of threats to the world. Despotism and erosion of civil rights is one of the main threats in the world, perhaps more pressing even than terrorism.
Terrorists should be stopped by whatever means necessary. We can't fiddle when so many lives are at stake.But like I said, terrorists a scum and should be dealt with by our military according to due process and the laws of war.
[QUOTE=zimmer;1059099415]I couldn't even get through your entire post.. It's so full of crap and judgement..Has Michael Dukakis entered the forum?
Waterboarding isn't torture. Just because Obama signs a bill stating so doesn't mean it is so. As we all know, Obama has been tragically wrong on pretty much everything.
That's why the Dems got their cans kicked.
I don't know whether to laugh or scream. Let's see... they've been terrorizing us for decades, and what have we done exactly to antagonize them?
Live lives that disagree with their 7th century way of life?
They fly planes into buildings and we did what to antagonize them?
You know, these cum stains passing for humans deserve to be antagonized. They deserve to feel our wrath. They should live in fear of us. They brought it on... now it's time for us to finish them off, no matter how long it takes.
So, we take an interrogation technique off the table that isn't torture, is effective, has saved scores of lives and could save hundreds of thousand in the future.
And had they not broke Khalid Shaikh Mohammed Cumstain, and attacks had been successful, all the Libs here would be screaming about Bush's inability to do what was necessary to protect the homeland.
You jumped into a conversation I had with somebody else.. the question was if my kid was kidnapped would I torture. I don't see how anything you said is relevant given the circumstance...
I was talking about antagonizing the people who maybe holding my child hostage. Why would I want to do that? Why would I want to anger somebody who had more power than me? I wouldn't want to put my child's safety in danger..
You either negotiate or you don't.. but you don't antagonize, by trying to hurt them. That is just stupid.
Last edited by Councilman; 11-13-10 at 09:50 PM.
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But I don't see how people who supported the war are an accessory to torture..
The problem I am seeing with a lot of arguments for torture is they are all attacking the terrorists.. they are scum, they don't deserve rights; think what they want to do to you.. they are evil, they deserve torture.
I don't disagree with that. They deserve torture, but I am also coming from the POV that we are held by our constitutional principles and, as a people, we don't really know the abuses at Gitmo.. There are allegations that people are and were being tortured there and they were denied trials. We don't know who was being tortured. We don't know everything.
I remember those disgusting humiliating photos of the prisoner.. in homosexual poses and being attacked by dogs. That is sick and that was unacceptable.
We don't even know who was being held there and why.. their names and accusations..
I don't understand why it is controversial for us all to ask wtf is really going on.. I remember that memo that Limbaugh and the right got so upset over, saying conservatives were being labeled terrorists. We have people on the terrorist watch list and they don't even know why or how they are on it. They can't get off it either.
This is all ridiculous considering the conservatives who don't trust government, trust government to play politics with wiretapping us and torturing suspected terrorists.
None of it sounds like a good system to keep pursuing IMO. Something needs to change.. there needs to be openness. We can't hold people without trials and be waterboarding them and using other suspected torture techniques on them. We even gave the Nazis trails...
Last edited by SheWolf; 11-13-10 at 09:56 PM.